quote:

---

Originally posted by AstralRonin

I'm currently budgeting a feature production, and one scene requires a series of candles that can go out on cue, remotely. I'm aware of fake LED candles like these: http://www.budgetlighting.com/store/agora.cgi?page=led_candles_smart_candle_rechargeable.html

Those can probably be rigged to go out remotely. However a youtube search for LED candles does not yield terribly impressive results. Is there anything that can generate a real flame, and go out remotely (or at least goes out by a method that would not be seen when filmed... whether it be hidden wires or something else).

Any ideas?

http://www.youtube.com/nairnet

---

If you talk with ten different Special Effects Technicians, you'll likely get ten different solutions to your need to show candles extinguishing on their own. Ideas for all SFX range from expensive and elaborate to extremely simple and inexpensive.

One method that immediately comes to mind is to just hit the candles with at blast of air from offscreen. If they are to go out one at a time, just direct the air specifically with a small hose from a compressor.

If you want something a little more elaborate for the sake of building something, create your own trick candles! Run two wicks through the wax. One wick is real and will be the burning one. The other "wick" only looks like a wick but is something nonflammable. When it comes time to put the flame out, pull the burning wick down from the bottom so that it disappears and the flame goes out leaving only the fake wick.

Just a couple ideas. SFX Technicians are special kind of people who like to solve problems. In a film environment, it is usually beneficial to find the quickest and most efficient method. While going for an elaborate solution may be cool and make Rube Goldberg proud, what matters most is what is onscreen, not how you did it.

Also, keep in mind SAFETY FIRST!!!! Take all precautions you should when dealing with open flames in contained areas with people around.

For more about SFX techniques, try the books and resources below:

What I Really Want to Do On Set in Hollywood: A Guide to Real Jobs in the Film Industry
by Brian Dzyak (Author)
Product Details
Paperback: 384 pages
Publisher: Lone Eagle (May 27, 2008)
Language: English
ISBN-10: 0823099539
ISBN-13: 978-0823099535

Secrets of Hollywood Special Effects (Hardcover)
by Robert McCarthy (Author)
Product Details
Hardcover: 208 pages
Publisher: Focal Press (June 18, 1992)
Language: English
ISBN-10: 0240801083
ISBN-13: 978-0240801087

Special Effects: The History and Technique (Hardcover)
by Richard Rickitt (Author), Ray Harryhausen (Foreword)
Product Details
Hardcover: 384 pages
Publisher: Billboard Books ( April 3, 2007 )
Language: English
ISBN-10: 0823084086
ISBN-13: 978-0823084081

Special Effects: An Oral History--Interviews with 37 Masters Spanning 100 Years (Hardcover)
by Pascal Pinteau (Author), Laurel Hirsch (Translator)
Product Details
Hardcover: 568 pages
Publisher: Harry N. Abrams ( January 1, 2005 )
Language: English
ISBN-10: 0810955911
ISBN-13: 978-0810955912

Techniques of Special Effects of Cinematography (Library of Communication Techniques, Film) (Hardcover)
by Raymond Fielding (Author)
Product Details
Hardcover: 472 pages
Publisher: Focal Press; 4 Sub edition (October 3, 1985)
Language: English
ISBN-10: 0240512340
ISBN-13: 978-0240512341

?url? http://www.orlandospfx.com/special-effects-school-florida/index.html?/url?

Brian Dzyak
Cameraman/Author
IATSE Local 600, SOC
http://www.whatireallywanttodo.com

Thanks for the suggestions! For the closeups, a blast of air should work fine, but I wanted at least a couple of wide shots where the candles go out, one by one. Another solution I was thinking of was perhaps using the LED candles then animating the flame with FX to make it look slightly more realistic. Safety is definitely a concern, as is the budget...

http://www.youtube.com/nairnet

For the wide show:

Set the camera and the candles - roll tape - shoot a few seconds of all the
candles burning - walk up to the first canlde and blow it out then exit the
frame - shoot a few seconds of the candles burning - walk up to the second
canlde and blow it out then exit the frame.

Keep this up until all the candles are out.

In editing, cut all frames that you are in. It will look like the candles are going
out one by one all by themselves.

=============================================
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)

Have someone stand near the candles with a computer air blower and have them blow the candle out on que. Then shoot the scene (without moving the camera) to get the same frame without that person there. Lay the two shots ontop of each other and crop the upper frame (the one you want) to erase the extra person from the scene.

Certifieds idea is easier and cleaner, but in case it screws with dialogue or other action to have thing stop I thought I'd throw out another option.

RJSchwarz
San Diego, CA

Great suggestion Certified Instigator. I wish I'd thought of it... so simple and it will probably wind up looking the best. I did want at least one shot of a person moving past the candles as they are going out, but I can probably figure something out or work around it.

quote:

---

Originally posted by certified instigator

For the wide show:

Set the camera and the candles - roll tape - shoot a few seconds of all the
candles burning - walk up to the first canlde and blow it out then exit the
frame - shoot a few seconds of the candles burning - walk up to the second
canlde and blow it out then exit the frame.

Keep this up until all the candles are out.

In editing, cut all frames that you are in. It will look like the candles are going
out one by one all by themselves.

=============================================
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)

---

That might work, but when there are moving objects in the frame, like flames or wind-blown leaves, the "cut" gives it away. A way around that would be to dissolve between frames, but again, if there is an Actor in frame, it wouldn't work.

Finding a way to hit the individual flames with air (multiple SFX Technicians) or rigging something like a trick candle suggested above, is likely the best and easiest way to achieve the effect you're going for.

Brian Dzyak
Cameraman/Author
IATSE Local 600, SOC
http://www.whatireallywanttodo.com

If you want a shot of someone moving past the candles as they are going out do that shot as a midshot instead of a wide shot, that way someone can get close enough to the candles to blow them out without being in frame or any other fancy tricks. Also the midshit will make it clear that candles are going out on their own, something that might be harder to determine in a wide shot as the candles would be so tiny.

One of the challenges of this scene is it takes place in a hallway. I'm contemplating putting set construction into the budget because of the challenges of this scene as well as many other scenes that take place in these halls.

There is at least one key shot where CI's suggestion would work (probably with a quick dissolve). Nothing in the frame would be moving except the flames.

For other shots, I think attaching a simple air blower to a longer, thin tubing, which can be carefully hidden, then directed at the candle, so it can be triggered off screen, would probably work.

It's a scene that will have to be story boarded and a technique, perhaps a different one, for each shot planned, so that it all works together to create the desired effect.

Thanks again for all the suggestions.

http://www.youtube.com/nairnet

quote:

---

Originally posted by AstralRonin

One of the challenges of this scene is it takes place in a hallway. I'm contemplating putting set construction into the budget because of the challenges of this scene as well as many other scenes that take place in these halls.

There is at least one key shot where CI's suggestion would work (probably with a quick dissolve). Nothing in the frame would be moving except the flames.

For other shots, I think attaching a simple air blower to a longer, thin tubing, which can be carefully hidden, then directed at the candle, so it can be triggered off screen, would probably work.

It's a scene that will have to be story boarded and a technique, perhaps a different one, for each shot planned, so that it all works together to create the desired effect.

Thanks again for all the suggestions.

http://www.youtube.com/nairnet

---

Every shot could indeed call for a different method. If the camera isn't moving, you could hide small tubes behind the candles which run to "something" that delivers a puff of air to the flame. You could get seriously elaborate and connect the system of tubes to a pressurized air compressor. Or you go very simple and enlist enough people to blow into each tube at the appropriate moment.

Hallways are always tough no matter what you're trying to shoot so anytime you can have a wild wall, you'll have more flexibility. But as always, adding the ability to have "choices" tends to also subtract time from your day, add hours to the work day, and possibly subtract setups which inevitably effects what is onscreen.

Brian Dzyak
Cameraman/Author
IATSE Local 600, SOC
http://www.whatireallywanttodo.com

You could also go out and buy a set of those gag birthday candles that will re-light themselves after a second or two... then, just blow them out, have the actor walk backwards through the shot as the candles magically relight themselves, and then reverse the video in post. The actor will walk by and the candles will seemingly extinguish themselves for a second or two, which is where you would cut away...