I have a Sony digital camcorder and have been using that to make movies, and it's fine, but I wanted to try experimenting with film. So how much exactly would a cheap 16mm camera, 8mm camera or Super8 camera cost? Im looking for one than records sound onto the film, or in other words I don't want to record the sound seperate then synch it up later. Also, how much would film cost me and how exactly would I get all the stuff I shot edited? Would I have to edit with a splicer, or is there a way to get it onto my computer.
So, basicaly my question is whats the cheaest I can get a good sound 16mm, 8mm and/ or super8 camera for, how would i edit and how much would film cost me.
Thanks
quote:
Im looking for one than records sound onto the film
Pretty sure they don't exist anymore: Super-8 sound film was always a kludge, and I believe it hasn't been made for a decade. Not sure if 16mm sound film is still available, but I've never seen any.
Also, frankly, it won't sound very good compared to recording to DAT, or even to a decent DV camera.
The only 16mm sound camera I know of is the BACH-AURICON. It used ?1R? film which was discontinued many years ago.
I think Kodak stopped making stripped Super8 film - you?ll have to do some on-line research to find out for sure.
No one can give you the exact cost of these cameras. You?ll be buying used equipment so the prices will be all over the place. From $50-$80 to $600-$1,000 for Super8 and $500-$600 to $5,000 and up for 16mm.
In Super8 look for the Canon 1014XL-S, Nikon R10, Nizo S80 and the best of them the Beaulieu 70008S.
In 16mm look for the Bolex H16, Canon Scoopic, Eclair NPR and Beaulieu R16.
There are two ways to edit: get a viewer, splicer and tape and cut the film. Before video that?s what everyone did. Or you can transfer the film to DV and edit on your NLE.
B&W Super8 stock will cost about $13 per 50ft - color about $16.
16mm is about $25 for 100ft of B&W and $45 for color.
=============================================
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)
=============================================
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)
OK, so tell me if this is right:
I get the camera and then go to Kodak's website and order some 16mm film
Then I shoot whatever it is I want to shoot, then send the film into someplace that processes the film.
I get the film back in a film reel, then take that to someplace that will transer the actual film onto the type of tape i used Sony digital camcorder.
I upload that to my editing software on my PC, edit then output back to the tape.
Keep in mind I'm no expert when it comes to film, I've never used it, but would like to. That's why I'm doing this.
Oh, and lastly. Could someone please explain in detail how I would record sound and synch it up to the film? Would the processesing lab synch it, or what? I know I'd need to use a clapboard to record sound, and a decvice with a boom, but I have NO idea at all. I've always used my camcorder to make movies thus far.
Thanks for all the help.
You got it pretty close.
You will be able to find a lab that will process your film stock and do the video transfer - there are thousands of them all across the country. I suggest you use one near you - the personal touch is always better than phone calls and shipping.
Check out ?url? http://www.yalefilmandvideo.com/?/url? as an example.
You use a microphone to record the sound - not the clapboard. The boom is a pole used to get the mic close to the actors - rather than having the mic near the camera. You will rcord the sound to a tape recorder.
The clapboard (or slate) is a device that has the visual information about the scene written on it - for example ?Scene 22c? ?take 4?. You will hold this in front of the lens - roll film and then say, ?Scene 22a, take 4? and bang the top of the clap board to make both an audio and visual ?marker?.
After you transfer your film to video to your computer and your audio to your computer, you can see the moment the clappers meet and hear the same moment on the audio. In your NLE you will match these two markers together and now the scene is in sync.
You can pay the lab to sync your footage. But as you can see, this process is quite time consuming and thus would be very expensive.
=============================================
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)
=============================================
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)
OK, I think I get it now, thanks a lot; I have a few more questions though:
Now to record the sound you say to go out and get a tape recorder. Can this just be any tape recorder from say Best Buy or Circuit City? And do I used cassette tapes to record with? Also about the boom mic, where do I get one and how much does it cost? And it just plugs right into the tape recorder? This might just be me, and it might be because of no experience, but wouldnt a person get lost in all that dialogue recorded? I mean how would you know what parts of the tape goes with what parts of the film?
Also how would I get all that audio I recorder onto my computer? Exactly how much more would it cost me to have the lab synch all the sound up for me?
Also, what does "NLE" man exactly.
Thanks alot, your responses have helped out alot!?:)?
quote:
The clapboard (or slate) is a device that has the visual information about the scene written on it - for example ?Scene 22c? ?take 4?. You will hold this in front of the lens - roll film and then say, ?Scene 22a, take 4? and bang the top of the clap board to make both an audio and visual ?marker?.
Your editor will just love you if you say 'scene 22a' while recording sound for 'scene 22c' :).
quote:
Originally posted by MarkG
Your editor will just love you if you say 'scene 22a' while recording sound for 'scene 22c' :).
Gotta keep their attention!
=============================================
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)
=============================================
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)
quote:
Now to record the sound you say to go out and get a tape recorder. Can this just be any tape recorder from say Best Buy or Circuit City? And do I used cassette tapes to record with?
No. You will need to record with a recorder that will stay at a constant speed - either through timecode or crystal sync. DAT is fairly standard now, but the good old Nagra reel to reel still does the job.
quote:
Also about the boom mic, where do I get one and how much does it cost?
We?re talking about two different pieces of equipment. A boom pole and a microphone. Any shotgun mic will work but Sennheiser is the standard and one of the best. I wouldn't spend anything less that $500 on a mic. Sound is SO important to a movie. Noisy sound tracks are as unacceptable as a fuzzy picture.
A boom pole can be as simple as a modified painters pole or professional boom with shock mounts and hand grips.
quote:
This might just be me, and it might be because of no experience, but wouldnt a person get lost in all that dialogue recorded? I mean how would you know what parts of the tape goes with what parts of the film?
This is where the clapboard (or slate) comes in. On your script you write the scene number - then you write on the script and on the slate, ?Scene 22 - Take 1?. You roll tape and say into the mic, ?Scene 22 - Take 1? - then you roll film so the slate can be seen and ?mark? the sync point by clapping the sticks.
You then do this again and again for takes 2,3,4. When you change the angle for a close up you will write on the script, ?Scene 22A - Take 1?. You roll tape and say into the mic, ?Scene 22A - Take 1? - then you roll film so the slate can be seen and ?mark? the sync point by clapping the sticks.
When you?re in the editing room you listen to the audio until you hear the ID - you run the picture until you see the ID and then you sync it up.
It takes a lot of time. On the professional movies this is the job of the editing intern. On movies like you and I make, we end up doing it ourselves.
quote:
Also how would I get all that audio I recorder onto my computer? Exactly how much more would it cost me to have the lab synch all the sound up for me?
The same way you get the picture into your computer. You need to digitize it (if it?s analogue) and transfer it.
I can?t give you exact numbers because each lab in different parts of the country will have different prices. A fair price would be $75 an hour - not an hour of finished footage, per hour of time spent. If your script supervisor notes are perfect and your camera and sound reports are perfect I would say it should be about one hour of work per 16mm reel.
NLE is Non Liner Editing. It?s my short cut for writing Final Cut Pro or Avid or Pinnacle or Vegas or Premiere.
=============================================
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)
OK, as of right now I have NONE of that equipment. So, say to produce a 20 minute short, how much would it cost me to go out and buy all that equipment and film NOT factoring in the costs for props, costumes or FX.
And, wouldn't it be cheaper to just rent all of that from somplace in town?
quote:
And, wouldn't it be cheaper to just rent all of that from somplace in town?
If you're shooting on film, personally I'd rent everything and get a good camera. However, that said, Peter Jackson made his first feature on a $200-ish clockwork Bolex, so you can do good work on a cheap camera if you try hard.
