Okay...basically here's what happens (chances are you've done this already, but...)
I have experience with this because I actually got a film festival license from The Magnetic Fields to use a song of theirs in a short I made. What you need to do is ask super nicely (whoever's music you wanna steal). And then...errr....thats it.

FIN!

"My music is my head, my head is out of wack, my wack is my sound, my sound is in your head"

Thanks Dimi, I did get some good news today from a band on Fat records who responded with a OK with us useing their music. The big goal is going to be getting Social Ditortion for the ending credits of my film. I may have to pay but I REFUSE!!!!
Shadyscribe67

shadyscribe67,
I hope you're joking about refusing to pay for a Social Distortion song. It would suck when a festival asks to see all of your music clearance documents and you don't have any to show.

Have you done any paperwork for the song you got the okay on from the band on Fat Records? Make sure you do as you will hate for your film to get some attention and they say they want to be compensated or take their song out of your film. It doesn't have to be formal. Just a letter outlining how you plan to use the song, where, how long, and their compensation. If there is no compensation, state that clearly. This will cover your butt in the long run and you're covered if asked for your licenses at a festival or if you get distribution.

Dominique Preyer
Music Supervisor
e-mail: ?url="mailto:dominique?hearitclearit.com"? dominique?hearitclearit.com ?/url?
Website: ?url="http://www.hearitclearit.com"?Hear It - Clear It Music Supervision?/url?

I agree wholeheartedly with Music Supervisor. I certainly understand what it's like to work on a film with no music budget, so your goal in this case should be to make it clear to the musician/label that you cannot afford to pay anything much up-front. Hopefully, they'll understand and MAYBE let you use them free of charge (unlikely, unless they're completely unknown) or work out a royalty structure.

I actually like working with royalties because it allows me to use music in my films that I'd otherwise be unable to afford, and as my movies are unlikely to make much money anyway at this point (I always make that clear to the people I deal with), I don't consider a little percentage of any potential profit that much of a loss. Just be sure to scrupulously document your expenses and incomes so that if/when your film starts making money, you know to start paying royalties.

Remember that, no matter what kind of deal you're trying to work out, it's no use driving a hard bargain since you're essentially asking for a favor. And again, as Music Supervisor said, be sure to get something in writing. To be official you should get a master use license and a sync license, although these aren't absolute necessities for films in this budget bracket.

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Andrew Gingerich
Exploding Goldfish Films
Check out my vodcast on iTunes: http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=96931870
and my blog at http://www.exgfilms.com

www.sonnyboo.com

Go to movie maker downloads. He makes music for anyone to use in their projects for FREE as long as you credit him.

if you post something on mandy, asking someone to compose music for your film for free, you'll almost certainly get a bunch of offers. a lot will have lots of samples too, so you'll get a taste of what fits your movie... its easier, you don't have to worry about clearances, and it'll fit your image instead of vice-versa.

www.maketradefair.com
www.thehungersite.com
www.oxfam.ca

It's still important to get everything in writing. If you and the composer agree to put together an agreement that covers how you will use the music, will a cue sheet be submitted, what happens if you start making money, etc., you will cover yourself. Just because a composer wants to get their music in a film (at no upfront cost to you) doesn't mean they're not going to get upset if you start making money and they get nothing. Without anything in writing, they can legally ask you to remove their music from your film if they do not get some compensation. If your film gets distribution on IFC, HBO, or any other broadcast, the composer can earn performance royalties (if a cue sheet is submitted). This is money you (the filmmaker) doesn't have to pay.

It's sad to see how some filmmakers feel it's okay not to pay or have an agreement or license for the music they want to use in their film. Songwriters, musicians and composers are creating a similar artistic and creative work as filmmakers (music & film). You would think there would be a mutual understanding when it comes to using each others creative work.

Just something to think about.

Dominique Preyer
Music Supervisor
e-mail: ?url="mailto:dominique?hearitclearit.com"? dominique?hearitclearit.com ?/url?
Website: ?url="http://www.hearitclearit.com"?Hear It - Clear It Music Supervision?/url?

I was moreless joking about refusing to pay for Social Distortion's music. I've been in punk bands for years. I understand as an arist, that blood, sweat and tears goes into everything we make as either musicians or film makers. This may be an extreme example and I might have my facts wrong, but I was told that the guy who made "My date with Drew" had to pay fees somwhere around five hundred thousand dollars after he realized that his music was all from the radio while he was filming. now, I could be wrong of coarse, I only wanna use one song from Social D, and if the Fesival and master use fees are within my budget, SHit! why not pay these guys, they deserve it anyway...

It's true that incidental music picked up during filming must be cleared. It happens a lot in documentaries (such as the "My Date With Drew" doc.). Glad to hear you're comments were just you joking.

In order to get permission (clearing the rights) to use a Social Distortion song, you'd have to contact their publisher and record label (see below). They will have you fill out and send them a synch and master use license request form. This is the process you will have to follow for any song you want to use in your film. The publisher and label will determine the fee based on what you put in the request form.

Publishers/Administrators:
REBEL WALTZ MUSIC/RUMINATING M
% RUMINATING MUSIC
C/O WIXEN MUSIC PUB, INC
24025 PARK SORRENTO
SUITE # 130
CALABASAS , CA, 91302
Tel. (818) 591-7355

Record Labels:
Time Bomb Recordings
31652 2nd Ave, Laguna Beach, CA 92651
(949) 499-8338
OR
Epic Records (Sony BMG)
550 Madison Ave.
New York, NY 10022-3211
(212) 833-8000

Which label you contact will depending on which song you are interested in.

I know a particular song will work great in a specific scene in a film but doing the right thing the right way works best for everyone. I'm not the music licensing police. I just deal with licensing on both the music publishing side and the film side as a music supervisor. I know what happens on both sides and I always advocate doing what's right even if you have to use different music and not what you've fallen in love with.

Dominique Preyer
Music Supervisor
e-mail: ?url="mailto:dominique?hearitclearit.com"? dominique?hearitclearit.com ?/url?
Website: ?url="http://www.hearitclearit.com"?Hear It - Clear It Music Supervision?/url?

Your good. Hey! thanks a bunch for the advise, Music Sup. I was having to learn all this on my own and wasn't sure where to start. The idea of a Rebel Waltz just "Kicking Down" a song to me for nothing seemed like an easy request til everyone here kinda put me in check. It made sense. More than I wanted to admit to. You obviously know what your talking about and I could use any professional adivise I could get. Now, can you throw a ball park figure at me if I told you the sanario. I do plan on contacting someone at Rebel Waltz this week but I wanna know what one song might cost if not used in it's entirley at the ending credits in my film and would it be cheaper if redone by a band I know...? Of coarse the original is what I want. Either way, I will be rquesting the form you mentioned. - Ron L. Tidwell

Ron,
I couldn't give you a quote for two reasons. One, I don't know the all the specifics of how you plan to use the song. You did mention using it over the end credits. That in itself will bring a higher quote than if it was used somewhere else in the film. Other factors that affect the fee is how much of the song is used, the media (i.e., Festivals, Cable TV, Free TV, DVD/Home Video, Theatrical, etc.), the territory it will be show (i.e., US only, US & Canada, Europe, Worldwide, etc.), and the term (i.e., 1 year, 3 years, 10 years, in perpetuity, etc.). There's other factors that could play a role in bringing the fees up or down. The second reason is I don't know what song you are interested in using. A more popular song will bring a higher fee than a non-popular song.

Another factor to consider is an experienced music supervisor can negotiate a better fee than someone who's calling asking a lot of questions. Knowing how to deal with the publishers and record labels gives you an advantage. There's also step deals that can be negotiated that could bring small fees up front and higher fees as the film makes money.

The link below takes you to an actual synch license request that I used for a parody of the Addams Family theme song. The fee was higher than the director wanted to pay so we cut the song from the film. You can see by looking at the request that a lot of info is needed in order to get a quote. You have to send a master use license request form to the label if you use a master recording. It's basically the same for both. Just a few modifications. If you get a band to do a cover of the song, you only need to contact the publisher and send a synch license request.

?URL? http://www.spincyclefilms.com/docs/SynchReq-01.pdf?/URL?

Once you get all of your license paid for and you've locked picture, a cue sheet needs to be properly filled out and submitted to ASCAP, BMI or SESAC. This will insure the songwriters and publishers will get paid performance royalties. The cue sheet should have every detail of every song. If a composer scored your film, each cue should be listed on the cue sheet too.

There's a lot involved! That's why it's a good idea to bring on a music supervisor to get the job done right.

I hope this helps.

Dominique Preyer
Music Supervisor
e-mail: ?url="mailto:dominique?hearitclearit.com"? dominique?hearitclearit.com ?/url?
Website: ?url="http://www.hearitclearit.com"?Hear It - Clear It Music Supervision?/url?

quote:

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... would it be cheaper if redone by a band I know...?

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This caught my eye, because there is a chance you may be missing a point here.

I'm not sure what you mean by saying 'cheaper if redone'. If by re-done you mean taking the same song and having a group of musicians make a new recording of it, then you will likely still need a license. Two types of rights are in play when you use an original recording of an artist for your movie: the rights of a person who wrote the song (music/lyrics), and the rights of the person/band/entity that created that particular recording of that song. For example, Paul McCartney's song 'Yesterday' has been recorded by various musicians over 3,000 times. Each time any of those different versions is publicly played (on radio, TV, film), the recording artist gets a cut, and Paul McCartney gets his share.

If you were to record a new version of that song, you'd still need a permission from the person who wrote the song.

hey , why dont you use film music composers , its cheaper and it would work for your films better , im not just saying that from a composer point of view , its just that having music made specifically for your film is better from many aspects .