Forget using the camera mike, except as a guide track. A proper mike is pretty much essential, and a sound mixer is useful because it allows the sound recordist to control and monitor the volume independently without having to adjust volume on the camera.

A mixer might not be essential. A boom operator is.

Realistically, a sound mixer is as important as the DP. You COULD just place
the camera on a tripod and press record. You COULD just plug a shotgun mic
into the camera and aim it at the actors. However, if you have a DP who
understands lighting, camera placement and movement and a sound mixer
who (as Mark said) is adjusting the recording and listening carefully to the
audio pick up, you will have a much better finished product.

You start shooting soon don't you?

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The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)

quote:

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Originally posted by Bababooey

Is it even worth it to try to film a movie using just the camera mics, and perhaps a boom mic? Or is a sound mixer so essential that it's pointless without them?

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Arguably, quality SOUND is more important than picture quality. Audiences typically forgive a "bad" picture, but rarely will forgive bad sound.

This extends beyond production sound into post-production where most of the soundtrack will be created. Ideally, you'll be able to capture the best dialogue tracks possible on set. But because of production limitations, you have to be prepared to have ADR afterwards.

ALSO, if you have any desire to sell to a foreign market, it is essential to have separate tracks for everything.... a track for dialogue, a track for foley/fx...and a track for music. It is necessary to have the ability to have "foreign" dialogue tracks created and then mixed with the fx and music if there is any intention of selling to the international market.

So, the answer to your question is, no, it is not in your best interest to forgo having a qualified Sound Mixer on set during production. You can, but you'll be spending more money in post production as you must bring your talent back in to do ADR sessions.

Brian Dzyak
Cameraman/Author
IATSE Local 600, SOC
http://www.whatireallywanttodo.com
http://www.realfilmcareer.com

quote:

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Originally posted by certified instigator

A mixer might not be essential. A boom operator is.

Realistically, a sound mixer is as important as the DP. You COULD just place
the camera on a tripod and press record. You COULD just plug a shotgun mic
into the camera and aim it at the actors. However, if you have a DP who
understands lighting, camera placement and movement and a sound mixer
who (as Mark said) is adjusting the recording and listening carefully to the
audio pick up, you will have a much better finished product.

You start shooting soon don't you?

=============================================
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)

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Yes, scheduled to begin shooting first weekend in April.

bjdzyak, I agree totally but I have a question. How is having separate tracks gonna be different when using the camera mic vs through an external mic? Both capture the audio on set and require manipulation to separate out sound effects and foley added in afterwards, right?

RJSchwarz

quote:

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Originally posted by rjschwarz

bjdzyak, I agree totally but I have a question. How is having separate tracks gonna be different when using the camera mic vs through an external mic? Both capture the audio on set and require manipulation to separate out sound effects and foley added in afterwards, right?

RJSchwarz

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I'm not quite sure I'm understanding your question fully. But what I think you're inquiring about is that all dialogue tracks will have some amount of ambient set noise on them, from footsteps to doors opening and closing. Correct?

In most circumstances, every effort is made by the Sound Department to minimize all extraneous noise/sound as dialogue is being spoken. You'll often see professional Actors delay speaking a line as they shut a door or do any other piece of business that would otherwise be on their line.

If there is a lot of walking, soft pads are taped to the bottoms of shoes to minimize that noise.

Furniture blankets are laid out on floors or taped to walls (that aren't in the shot) to help dampen otherwise "live" echoey rooms.

Windows are closed.

Production holds for airplanes flying overhead or other exterior noise that can't be controlled.

So, a great deal of effort is made to isolate the dialogue tracks on set to give the cleanest possible recordings to the post departments. This is why a really really good Boom Operator is worth all the money he earns. It's not just about sticking the pole out into the vicinity of the Actors. A professional will "cue" the boom precisely over each Actor to capture the dialogue cleanly, which means that the Boom Operator is learning the lines just like the Actors are.

Given all of that effort, it is true that sometimes the on-set tracks aren't as clean as they might want, so there can be a lot of ADR afterward. There is a specific person who edits nothing but dialogue, doing what he can to clean up the original recordings using every tool available.

It is vital to have an isolated dialogue track so that the FX and music tracks can be separate as well. Having everything isolated enables total freedom in the mix AND it allows for foreign language tracks to be mixed for international releases. And THAT alone can make or break the profitability of a project.

Brian Dzyak
Cameraman/Author
IATSE Local 600, SOC
http://www.whatireallywanttodo.com
http://www.realfilmcareer.com

That is more or less the answer I was expected. The quality through a board is simply better because they have extra headphones to accurately judge issues but ambient sound that finds its way there is the same problem in each case and Foley needs to be separated or regenerated either way as well to put it onto a different track during editing.

RJSchwarz

You can mix your volume in editing software, Sony Vegas, Adobe After Effects, they all have some form of audio mixing capabilities built into them.