Lowel makes nice kits. Tungsten lights with stands, barndoors and
hard case. Britek makes nice light kits - cheaper than Lowel and
not as durable, but very usable. You can also check Arri lights -
more expensive and worth every penny. I have a Lowel 6 light kit
with the Omnis and Totas that I bought new in 1990 and am still
using it 20 years later.

For a nice beginning light kit I recommend:

A couple of work lights with stands from any home improvement
store.

Five or six scoop lights - those lamps with the silver
reflector.

Three or four pieces of Foamcore from any art supply store to use
to bounce the light.
http://www.artsupply.com/brand/foamcore.htm

Two or three that you can get at Ikea. I hook each one to a dimmer
(home improvement store again) to get better control.
http://www.lunabazaar.com/white-8-inch-no-frills-paper-lantern.aspx

Some colored gels (check on line or if there is a small theater in
your town they often have extras) and some black wrap.
Check Studio Depot
http://www.studiodepot.com/store/

This example kind of puts all the above links in perspective.

http://www.darkcrimes.com/movies/lighting%3Aexample.mov

=============================================
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bababooey

I'm trying to make a film on the smallest budget possible. What should I expect to pay for a decent lighting set?

---

Well, ideally, the equipment you need is driven by the script and how you wish the overall movie to look. There is no "one size fits all" lighting "kit" that will cover every shot in your movie.

A "basic" lighting package that will enable you to light a room and light the Actors will consist of perhaps two 2 1K openfaced tungsten units with Chimeras and or some other kind of diffusion gel, like 216. Don't forget the stands to go with them.

You also should have some smaller units, in the 650w or 500w range, also with chimeras or other ways to diffuse the light. Also stands for those.

And you might want a couple or few 300w and 110w units that you'll use for back lights and other "spots" on the set.

In addition to the lighting units themselves, you need stands (as mentioned) as well as C-stands to hold flags and diffusion material plus sandbags to prevent them from falling down. If you're shooting in practical locations, you will need some additional rigging hardware to put lights on set (yet out of shot) when a normal stand would be in the way.

Dimmers are also a great way to control light, however the Sound Mixer sometimes complains if the dimmers "hum" when they are dialed down.

Don't forget "Stingers" (extension cords) to distribute power around the set.

And most importantly, if you are running power from the "house" (out of the wall), you must keep watch over how much power you're drawing from a 20amp circuit at any given time. Try to pull too much and you'll pop the breakers or worse.

How MUCH light you pour onto a set is dependent upon how sensitive your camera and/or film is to light. If you're shooting with a consumer-level HD camera, you shouldn't need much, however with video, the less light you have, the more grain/noise you may be introducing into the picture which may or may not serve the overall look you're going for.

What I mentioned above are all tungsten units that you'll want to use for interiors where there is little to no daylight spilling in from windows.

If you are shooting day exteriors or interiors with a lot of daylight, you can use bounce boards outside but you'll need daylight sources for the interiors. Those are called HMI's and are quite expensive. If you use tungsten sources on an interior set with a lot of daylight spilling in, your camera will want to white balance for one or the other, 3200k or 5600k. If you balance for the daylight, your interiors and actors will all look very warm or orange. If you balance for the tungsten sources, the light streaming in from the windows will be overly blue. If you can't get daylight sources, then you could gel the windows to correct the light to warm it up (actually take the color temperature down to 3200k). So you'd need large sheets of CTO (color temperature orange) and gaffe tape and lots of patience to accomplish this.

And lighting a movie is more than just illuminating a set to get an exposure. Lighting is about creating a new reality and a mood that evokes a feeling or emotion appropriate to the story you're telling. So just throwing lights up is just half the job. The other part is CONTROLLING the light. You do this by adjusting the levels (by using dimmers or different size units), by carefully placing the units in the proper places, and by using hardware (like Cstands and flags and scrims) to cut and control what the light hits and what it doesn't and how much light hits the subject or the set).

It's a lot to digest and you will get better at it over time. The BEST thing for you to do at this stage is to look around and enlist the help of someone who already has this type of equipment and the experience to use it. The benefits to this approach are that you aren't putting out money for equipment that A)you aren't sure how to use and B)that may not be fully adequate for your needs. Plus, by having someone experienced there to light your sets, your movie will look much better while you watch and learn so you can do it correctly the next time (if you choose to go in alone).

Who would help you like this? If your story is worthwhile, then a freelance Cameraman who has interest in putting a narrative on his reel may freely donate his time and equipment to your cause. Look around to local production companies, news affiliates, PBS affiliates, and university film departments. In general, most professionals are looking for worthy projects to add their names too, so long as there is something in it for them. And that doesn't always mean money. Just having a great project to work on that differs from their normal humdrum work can be enough. Toss in a few attractive Production Assistants to hang around set and it can't hurt your efforts either. ?;)?

Good luck!

Brian Dzyak
Cameraman/Author
IATSE Local 600, SOC
http://www.whatireallywanttodo.com
http://www.realfilmcareer.com

Thanks for the very informative answers guys. But no one's mentioned how much some of this costs. That's the main thing I want to know.

Hit google. The first response provided links, so you should be able to do it yourself with the info provided and links. My "guesstimate" (for the first response) is well below $1k. As for Brian's suggestions, they'll certainly be much more, but provide much more professional options.

The biggest problem for a beginner is not so much how big a kit to get; it's what to do with it. Nothing in our ordinary lives prepares us for the art and craft of lighting for camera. While there are plenty of books on this subject, and it's a good idea to read as many of them as possible, the best way to develop talent for this is by setting up lights, shooting a scene, then looking at the shot and finding out what could have been done better.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bababooey

Thanks for the very informative answers guys. But no one's mentioned how much some of this costs. That's the main thing I want to know.

---

To do it right? http://www.filmtools.com/ligdep.html browse the lighting and grip sections for actual prices on professional gear.

To just "do it"? Well, it's whatever you want to spend on less than adequate gear from wherever you can get "lights" that shoot photons out into the world.

Again, you don't HAVE TO spend ANYTHING on lighting/grip/electric/camera gear if you find a qualified and experienced Cameraman in your area who is willing and able to light and shoot your movie WITH you. Not only will he (or she) have the camera and lighting gear already, but he (or she) will know how to use it so that your final product will likely look better than you would have been able to achieve.

But if you're looking to buy your own lighting gear, it'll cost you in the neighborhood of $8,000 or more for the proper equipment. If you don't have that and want to just get "whatever" works, then beg, borrow, and steal from your house, friends, and relatives and then fill in the gaps with shop lights from Home Depot for a few bucks.

The question always comes down to this... do you want to do it right or just do it? You can spend two weeks shooting with whatever is available and you'll have "something" at the end to show for it. OR you can invest the time in getting qualified crew (camera, grip, electric) and cast (real talent from the local university or local theater group instead of goofy friends) and have something to show for your time and effort that attracts interest.

If your story is worth the effort then qualified people will WANT to be involved. If your project is just about screwing around, then it doesn't matter if you light it or not.

Brian Dzyak
Cameraman/Author
IATSE Local 600, SOC
http://www.whatireallywanttodo.com
http://www.realfilmcareer.com

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bababooey

Thanks for the very informative answers guys. But no one's mentioned how much some of this costs. That's the main thing I want to know.

---

Vasic is right. I gave you links and names of lights and
light kits. Click on the links - most of them have prices
right there. For the ones that don't use Google. Type
in "Lowel" , "Britek", "Omni", "Tota".

Again, thanks alot guys. I asked these same questions on the Studentfilmmakers.com site and the moderator banned me from the site. I guess he didn't like the fact that I'm a novice with a lot of questions. Go figure!

Brian,

What you're saying technically makes sense, but it may be a bit unrealistic. When my daughter started learning violin, I didn't spend $2,000 on a decen instrument; I bought a $20 violin for her. She outgrew that one in two years, and the next one I bought was $200. I will give her a few more years to figure out if she is sure she wants to commit to this before I spend $2k on a good instrument.

When someone hasn't done ANY filmmaking, it is unlikely that he will get a skilled/experienced cinematographer with gear to work with him (never mind for free). I strongly believe that in order to begin learning filmmaking by doing, it isn't necessary to have a HMC-150 and a $8k+ lighting kit. Today's consumer camcorders (such as Canon's HF-S100) capture better quality images than $10k camcorders of 15 years ago.

There are two ways to learn the craft (and business) of filmmaking: in film school, or independently. When you pay for film school, you get to have the necessary knowledge about the process of filmmkaing funneled directly into your brain. In the course of your studies, you get to work on film projects with like-minded, dedicated and driven people (everyone's strongly motivated; they're spending a lot of money on this school), and you're using professional equipment.

The other option (independent learning) means borrowing "Filmmaking for Dummies", "Idiot's Guide to Independent Filmmaking" and other beginners books, then moving on to more specialised literature (Screenplay: Foundations of Screenwriting, Five Cs of Cinematography, Film Directing Shot by Shot, On Film Editing, etc), and supplementing it by writing and producing shorts. This second option can be started with as little as $1,000 (the cost of a cheap HD camcorder, cheap tripod, some work lights, scoop lights, globe lights, bounce boards, etc), assuming a computer with some rudimentary video editing software (such as iMovie) is already available. If the person has enough free time and enough friends with some talent and enthusiasm, this is the least expensive way to learn filmmaking by doing. And nothing really prepares a filmmaker for real filmmaking better than, well, filmmaking.

Thank you, Vasic.

The violin analogy doesn't work, in my mind, because most "art" is something that a person can (and must) do on their own, like painting or sculpture.

But making a "movie" is, in the vast majority of situations, a very collaborative enterprise necessitating the need for others in front of and behind the lens.

YES, going "cheap" is definitely necessary to those who have little money and/or experience. Just "getting it done" is part and parcel of the learning experience.

That said, the question posed indicated a desire to make a project "look better" (by use of lighting) than if a newbie just ran around with a random group of friends making a fun short. Just as thousands (or more) other people have done, I too took that approach when younger and in High School. We goofed off and had fun and our projects looked like it.

But to up the ante, as it were, to have the desire to make the "picture" look better (than just shooting whatever happens to be in front of you), suggests a desire to have the overall project be of a higher quality. Proper and purposeful lighting is a part of that and it would seem that anyone with this goal would also strive to make EVERY portion of that project more "professional."

Given that, my advice hopes to focus the new "filmmaker" to think very clearly about their ultimate goals specifically when money is about to be spent. A newbie with an $8,0000 basic light kit likely isn't going to deliver a very visually successful project as he is inexperienced with that equipment and how best to use it. Moreso, in most cases, the aspiring "Filmmakers" who frequent sites like this are generally more interested in DIRECTING more than becoming professional Directors of Photography so making significant investments of time and money into that career path aren't generally something I would advocate.

Which is why, for those who wish to become professional Directors one day, I suggest that they do not spend a dime on purchasing equipment at all. Instead, an aspiring Director should spend more time writing great screenplays (shorts and feature length). An aspiring Director will also have to invest some time in the particulars of producing as well in the early stages. But just as the aspiring Director doesn't usually go out to purchase wardrobe racks, makeup kits, and generator trucks, so too they have no real need to go purchase expensive cameras and lighting kits that they A) will likely not get a financial return on and B) that are generally inadequate for the job anyway.

Instead, an aspiring Director should invest time in gathering the resources he/she needs for each specific project. That means "hiring" people and renting equipment that are "specialized" for the specific needs of that production only because the next project may or may not need those people and equipment. Of course, at this stage, he will be asking for volunteers and donations of equipment, locations, and perhaps even food to feed the crew and cast, but the concept is the same.

Yes, the very new person should "get" a cheap camera and play around with angles and lens sizes and crude movement just to get a feel for the generalities of how to shoot a scene or sequence. But when that person decides that it is worth the time and money to make the project better, by having a better camera, better lighting PACKAGE(lights, stands, grip and electric gear, etc.), then it is in his/her best interest to not half-ass it and just go all the way by looking for interested "Specialists" in every department who can make the entire endeavor worthwhile.

Brian Dzyak
Cameraman/Author
IATSE Local 600, SOC
http://www.whatireallywanttodo.com
http://www.realfilmcareer.com

quote:

---

Originally posted by bjdzyak
That said, the question posed indicated a desire to make a project "look better" (by use of lighting) than if a newbie just ran around with a random group of friends making a fun short.

---

I didn't read Bababooey's question the way you did.
I read it as a beginning movie maker working on the
smallest budget possible looking for prices of a light
kit. To me that meant going "cheap" - as in just
"getting it done" without spending too much money
just like hundreds of thousands of beginning filmmakers
have done before him. People like me.

From reading his other posts, it seems he is about to
make his first movie.

But it's always good to get your professional POV on
lighting and cameras.

=============================================
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)

I am a musician by training and had done it professionally for many years. When I read the question, the first thought that came to my mind was "Cheap light is great, but one must not forget audio". I almost responded with "But what about microphones?". I didn't, because I have realised quite some time ago that I've been looking and thinking about filmmaking from a musician's perspective (with lot of music production and sound engineering experience). In other words, I would probably invest more time and effort in properly miking a set, capturing at least 6 independent, discrete audio tracks onto a dedicated device (in addition to whatever camera records), carefully write the score (or get someone better than me to do it) and generally dedicate more energy to producing sound than picture.

Since the question was fairly narrow (cheapest way to light decently), I figured, CI was fairly helpful with his "Home Depot" approach. Vast majority of aspiring filmmakers who eventually write and shoot their first film are their own directors AND cinematographers. It is very rare that someone decides to shoot their first short (or feature) and is able to motivate others with decent experience (and gear) to participate for free. It's not only that; most of those initial projects are simple enough that directing, as well as setting up shots and running the camera, isn't nearly the biggest challenge of the project. YouTube and Vimeo are full of amateur film projects that were done by groups of friends with no practical experience or connections with the industry. Most of these films would have never been finished (or even started) if the author who drove the project had tried to find collaborators with experience and/or equipment.

quote:

---

Originally posted by certified instigator

quote:

---

Originally posted by bjdzyak
That said, the question posed indicated a desire to make a project "look better" (by use of lighting) than if a newbie just ran around with a random group of friends making a fun short.

---

I didn't read Bababooey's question the way you did.
I read it as a beginning movie maker working on the
smallest budget possible looking for prices of a light
kit. To me that meant going "cheap" - as in just
"getting it done" without spending too much money
just like hundreds of thousands of beginning filmmakers
have done before him. People like me.

From reading his other posts, it seems he is about to
make his first movie.

But it's always good to get your professional POV on
lighting and cameras.

---

Yes, I am a beginning film maker. I have NO PREVIOUS EXPERIENCE. I am planning to shoot my first film in the spring of 2010.
Honestly, my intent isn't to go "cheap" on the lights, but naturally I would like to spend as little as possible. If need be, I've got an extra 800-1,000 bucks I could spend for the lighting. Is that amount enough for cheap, decent, or good?

When you checked the costs of the Lowell and Britek kits did you
find any in your price range you think might work?

Do any of the DIY lights I linked to seem like something you can
afford and use well?

Yes, I am a beginning film maker. I have NO PREVIOUS EXPERIENCE. I am planning to shoot my first film in the spring of 2010.
Honestly, my intent isn't to go "cheap" on the lights, but naturally I would like to spend as little as possible. If need be, I've got an extra 800-1,000 bucks I could spend for the lighting. Is that amount enough for cheap, decent, or good?

?/quote?

In short, that amount won't buy you much in the way of lighting, grip, electric gear. Remember, it's NOT just lights you need, but stands (potentially different sizes) and extension cables and other ways to rig lights in places that you can't put stands. Plus ways to control the lights you turn on like diffusion, scrim type material to control the amount of lights and flags to control what the light hits or doesn't.

Can you use things you'll find at a hardware store? Of course! But, there's an old adage that says, "Fast, Cheap, Good... pick two." In your case, though, you're opting for Cheap (with that budget) so you really will only get one because working with non-industry specific gear won't make your life easy so it won't be "Fast."

As far as "Good," since you are a beginner, you could achieve "Good" with a little luck, but even an experienced person would have trouble creating "Good" with equipment that wasn't designed for what you'll use it for.

As the other guys have said, take a look at the prices for "real" gear and you'll see fairly quickly that even $1,000 won't go very far. (you can find gear and prices here http://www.filmtools.com and here http://www.studiodepot.com/store) Remember, you're not just shopping for lights themselves, but the bulbs that go in them plus all the support gear to make them work.

There are a few places where you can buy used gear. Just type "used film equipment" into the Google search box to start.

Should any of this dissuade you from NOT proceeding? Not at all. Necessity is the mother of invention or so they say, so if you want to do this, you'll find anything you can from wherever you can and "make it work." That's admirable and is something you should do particularly when you're just starting out. But, I'll say it again, when you get serious, first determine what it is that YOU really want to do be it directing or producing or being a Cameraman. If it's directing you want, seriously consider finding someone else near you who DOES want to do that job.

Why? Because, if you don't want to be a Cameraman, they'll likely do it much better than you ever will and will know the gear and can likely get better gear than you can. Then you can concentrate on what it is YOU really want to do instead of investing time and money into a specific job that you have no intention of doing anyway. In other words, if you don't want to be a professional Cameraman, then why spend any money on lighting gear or and gear at all? An aspiring Special FX Makeup Artist isn't going to go buy a lighting kit and camera and wardrobe rack or anything else. He's going to concentrate on what HE needs for HIS specific job and then join a group of other people who all have their own passions.

Just one more note. Sound was mentioned, but it deserves more attention. No matter how you choose to shoot and light your movie, audiences are likely to forgive a less-than-perfect picture but they generally have NO tolerance for poor sound. If they can't hear the dialogue and/or it just sounds "bad" and the rest of the soundtrack is subpar, they'll write your movie off as "amateur" and move on quickly. Many a movie with poor imagery has been "saved" because the soundtrack is "perfect." Do NOT underestimate the power that a solid, clean, polished soundtrack (dialogue, sound effects, music) can have.

From what I know about your situation (which isn't much), my suggestion is that you go to Home Depot to buy cheap lights and muddle your way through that exercise. But take "extra" money you have and invest it into getting a great Sound Mixer (and Boom Operator) so you get clean dialogue tracks. And then invest money into a sound mix that gives your project that "professional" feel. You will not regret it.

Brian Dzyak
Cameraman/Author
IATSE Local 600, SOC
http://www.whatireallywanttodo.com
http://www.realfilmcareer.com