Yes. There is a social stigma that surrounds porn. But I really don't know if
releasing this type of information to the investors is going to discredit your
chances from the start. They may feel that your million dollar a year business
that distributes and produces porn shows you know business very well.

=============================================
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)

The main question here is, has this been done before? Adult performers have practically never been able to cross over (with very, very few notable exceptions, and even those never became major mainstream stars). As for producers/directors, casual google search doesn't turn up anything of value. As someone in the business, you may have better way of finding out. If there are some precedents, it might be valuable to do some research into their business/career paths for clues.

I don't know of a director who has made it "big" who started in porn. Big as in famous.
But I know many producers who cross over and have worked with directors who have
made porn at some point in their life. Not famous, mainstream people, but people
who are making a living in "legit" movies. And even some who cross back and forth.

I would suggest you mention it (if it comes out later someone might pull the plug) but emphasize that you learned how to work quickly and at super efficient cost or other things like that that can be spun into positives. You might also mention that you've recently had a change of mind about working in porn (include story of why here) and you're looking for a break to get away from all of that. Redemption and a second chance are big heartstring pullers (assuming there is some truth to that).

It might help if you ease your way out. Say try for work on erotic thrillers for Cinemax. Either that or gather up the money and finance your own non-porn film. If it is successful your resume can begin with that.

Or you can find investors who are in the porn industry but looking to invest in movies outside the industry. Again, if you get a non-porn track record you can use that in the future.

Lastly, watch the IFC show "The Business". It's a comedy about a guy in a similar situation. Great show.

RJSchwarz

I know a lot of people who had professional problems, ranging from alcoholism to drugs to stealing money, but many of them got their acts together and went on to lead very good lives.

You haven't done anything wrong, as far as I know, and you're nowhere near those losers I mentioned. If they can get over their problems, you can get over your past, which MAY (not must, may) carry a stigma.

Quite honestly, I know lots of investers and accountants who would love to be in porn or buy a strip club or be like Larry Flynt, because they know there's money in sex. I suggest you sound out some investment bankers or financiers and get an idea of what they think - if your past is going to be a problem, then ask them how you should explain it. You'd be surprised at their suggestions.

I think the redemption and a second chance story would be the best. I suppose as a buddying filmmaker/storyteller I should be able to muster something heartfelt and raising compassion. I'd say that: From the outside perspective although at first it may seem exciting, the real truth is that adult film business is boring as there is no room for personal development and there is a low ceiling as to how much money you can make in comparison to feature film business. Also it doesn't award truly talented people because there is no room there for more than physical beauty and some basic performance skills on the side of performers, and there is not much to do on the side of directors. I have learnt on my own example that trying to change the world by re-inventing porn is naive and doomed for failure as nobody is looking in this type of content for life inspiration. If you put a lot of time and energy into adult film nobody is going to see it and last but not least you cant exactly show it to your grandmother. So besides the money if you made it in the adult biz there is really nothing to be proud of. To my redemption story I'd add that I came to the US with nothing from Eastern Europe and I had nothing for a while. I was working as a performer and saving money for a while to make my first porn film at some point even slept in Central Park which actually is true. Now I have 7 people on staff and a cute little office in a with windows coming out at the exactly same park I used to sleep in. So its a classic American from the gutter to riches story which I would like to continue developing by work in the feature film. I don't know if that's redemptive enough. What do you think?

Last but not least I wrote a film treatment, its long enough, exciting and compelling and I am happy with it - still its just a treatment. I am not sure if I should first pay to have the full script written or try to gauge an initial interest based on the treatment? Last quote I got for a script based on that treatment was a $100K which I was told was "a base rate for a scriptwriter from the American scriptwriters guild". That seems very steep to me as an entry figure just to be able to talk to investors. Is there some place where you can post your treatment that would match you with investors interested in a particular type of film?

Thank you for all the answers.

Well, I hope you stick around, because some of us would love to learn from you. 🙂

Redemption assumes you have done something wrong. Do you feel what
you did was wrong and needs to be redeemed somehow?

quote:

---

Originally posted by MvF

Last but not least I wrote a film treatment, its long enough, exciting and compelling and I am happy with it - still its just a treatment. I am not sure if I should first pay to have the full script written or try to gauge an initial interest based on the treatment? Last quote I got for a script based on that treatment was a $100K which I was told was "a base rate for a scriptwriter from the American scriptwriters guild". That seems very steep to me as an entry figure just to be able to talk to investors.

---

That $100k figure isn't too far off. The WGA minimum is $58,477 to
$109,783 depending on the total budget. You can, of course, pay non
union rates to non union writers. Is the script were you want to skimp
and save money?

quote:

---

Originally posted by MvF
Is there some place where you can post your treatment that would match you with investors interested in a particular type of film?

---

Im sorry to tell you that isnt the way it works. Sure, there are
some websites that claim to hook up investors with filmmakers, but
as you do your research look closely at their success stories. You
will find that there arent any. Accredited investors do not sign
up on websites looking for treatments and then pour their money
into something they read on line.

Wouldnt it be nice if it were that easy? Post your treatment,
investors line up to give you money.

The reality is very few investors even care about the story and
even fewer know how to read and understand a story treatment.
Investors are looking for a project in which they will make money.
Investors are the business and money people. The very few
investors who invest in motion picture production do it for
reasons other than the story.

You are going to need a screenplay and an excellent business plan.
In order to approach accredited investors you will have to
register with the SEC and follow all the rules and regulations.

And I know what many of you are thinking; yes, there are and have
been exceptions. Many movies have been self financed or financed
by friends and families. Im speaking ONLY about contacting people
not known to you personally to invest in a movie.

=============================================
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)

quote:

---

Originally posted by certified instigator
The reality is very few investors even care about the story and
even fewer know how to read and understand a story treatment.
Investors are looking for a project in which they will make money.
Investors are the business and money people. The very few
investors who invest in motion picture production do it for
reasons other than the story.

You are going to need a screenplay and an excellent business plan.

---

OK, completely off porn topic of the original post:
Since the investors don't really care about the story or can read or understand it, how can you gauge the potential success of the movie based on a business plan. Isn't business plan completely dependent on the theme of the movie and whether people like it or not? What are the ways of proving to investors that your movie will be a success if its not making them believe in the story? I understand that moviemaking is a business but how can you guess if a movie, especially your first movie without big name stars, is going to be a hit? To reverse the question - if i don't have the story or stars - what can I shop to investors?

I could be wrong, but I think you need a screenplay and comparisons to similar movies and how much those movies cost and how much money they made to fill out the business plan/proposal.

RJSchwarz

I don't mean investors don't care at all about the story. I'm
sorry about giving that impression. Investors are the business
people, not the creative people. Very few understand how to read
and understand a treatment. Investors looking for a film
investment can, and do, read completed scripts but they rely on
the producers experience and the numbers to decide on which
project to invest in. If, for example a star an investor really
likes tells them they love the script and want to be in the movie,
that investor is more likely to put up some money. They may never
even read it. Or ask what its about. If a producer with a track record
tells investors she believes in the project, the writer and the director
there is a chance the investor will put up money.

quote:

---

Originally posted by MvF
how can you gauge the potential success of the movie based on a business plan. Isn't business plan completely dependent on the theme of the movie and whether people like it or not?

---

Some might be. But in my experience that's the very rare investor.
Most are looking at numbers and not the theme of the movie. Most
audiences do not pay to see a movie based on it's theme - they
flock to movies based on other factors; the stars, the director
(if it's a big name director) and sometimes the genre. A gross out
comedy without stars can sell based on the trailer; so can a
horror film. Knowledgeable investors know that.

quote:

---

What are the ways of proving to investors that your movie will be a success if its not making them believe in the story? I understand that moviemaking is a business but how can you guess if a movie, especially your first movie without big name stars, is going to be a hit?

---

That's the 20 million dollar question. If I could answer it I'd be
using that method over and over. There is no way to prove a movie
will be a success - especially your first movie. Most first movies
that are successful were self financed. "Clerks", El Mariachi,
The Blair Witch Project, Pi, Primer, ...Around, Baghead.
Many others were made by directors who had an award winning short
and got financing that way: Jared Hess, Bryan Singer, James Wan,
Scott Coffey, Martin McDonagh, Paul Thomas Anderson.

So you write an amazing script that attracts a producer with a
track record who will put together financing with you attached as
director. Its that simple....

quote:

---

To reverse the question - if i don't have the story or stars - what can I shop to investors?

---

Yourself? Sometimes a friend with money believes in you enough to
put up the cash. But Im thinking that without an excellent script
that can attract people with experience and connections you may
have to do what many hundreds of thousands before you have done.
Self finance.

=============================================
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)

Star Bankability

http://star-currency.forbes.com/celebrity-list/

http://star-currency.forbes.com/celebrity-list/

The way I understand it, at least at the studio level, financiers actually attempt to quantify, in some fashion, the various elements that are "attached" to any given project. The "higher the total," the safer the risk and the higher probability that a movie will get made and the more capital is made available.

Of course it's all just a big gamble, like any product that's put on the market. You could put together the top five bankable movie stars with the "top" Director, a top Producer....top EVERYBODY.... and the film could still flop at the box-office.

For this reason, a considerable amount of MARKETING goes into the highest priced movies. While marketing alone can't guarantee that movie will make a profit, it can (and frequently does) "Sell" a movie to the public "making them" want to see it regardless of how good or bad it really is. And because word-of-mouth has been ramped up with the Internet and cel phone use, a movie truly has to "hit" right out of the gate in case the first weekend reviews deter anyone from going in week two and beyond.

SO, when you're out to make a movie, a "business plan" as it's traditionally referred to doesn't exactly apply the way it might for other industries. For your movie to attract investment capital, you need to "build the factory," meaning attaching the best PEOPLE you can to a solid screenplay. The better track record all of those elements have, the better chance you'll have at attracting the money and more people who are better at what they do.

Brian Dzyak
Cameraman/Author
IATSE Local 600, SOC
http://www.whatireallywanttodo.com
http://www.realfilmcareer.com

Well, I'm not so sure investors would only look at the bottom line - they may also be bedazzled at the glamor factor, as in "Invest in Die Hard X and meet Bruce Willis", so they may be willing to take a smaller cut. The investment world is very strange, and, when that world meets the show biz world, the irrationality is compounded.

I know many investors, and I have some sense of how that works, but I don't really know the psychology of people who would invest in film, because that's a totally different kettle of fish.

But isn't Bruce Willis doing another Die Hard movie the "bottom line"?
A investor looking at that package with an investment of, say, $5,000,000
and a package with an excellent script, a first time director, a producer
with one or two slightly successful movies and no name actors with an
investment of, say, $500,000 doesn't have much of a decision to make.
The bottom line is Bruce Willis doing another Die Hard movie is more
likely to make back that $5,000,000 investment (and then some) than
the first timer with no name actors and an excellent script.

I any of us had that pitch: "Invest in Die Hard X and meet Bruce" we
could get investors without them looking at the script. The bottom line.
Frankly if any of had the pitch; "Bruce Willis has agreed to be in my
low budget film but the budget now jumps from $500,000 to $3,500,000
because that's his salary" getting the money would be much easier.
The bottom line again.

But you're right, Mogul, many investors have put money into movies made
by first timers with no names. And the psychology is; because they believe
in the person. I suspect an investor would not invest in a total stranger
based only on the script. Which brings me full circle. An excellent script
isn't what investors are looking for.

=============================================
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)