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Originally posted by Aspiring mogul

I've been exploring various options with my friends, and one possibility is to start as a hobbyist.

Is there a difference between an indie and a hobbyist? I would think that all hobbyists are indies, but not all indies are hobbyists, because some indies earn their living as film producers.

I'd like to know some things about filmmakers and producers who produce films purely as a hobby. Can anyone get me started?

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Wow, that's a new question! 🙂

I'd define a "hobbyist" as someone who does something with no intent to turn a profit or recoup "costs" at all.

An "indie" or "independent" would be someone who receives financing via "alternative" means apart from the "norm" of Movie Studios. "Indie" films that are good enough and/or receive appropriate attention can subsequently receive "studio" backing and distribution which makes is seem like they are "studio" projects, when they really aren't.

When you pose the question of whether to start as a hobbyist or not, it truly is a somewhat meaningless distinction if you are financing the projects yourself. If you seek out external financing, then it is likely that those who are "donating" their money so that YOU can "play," would prefer that their investment in YOU and your movie will somehow "pay off" at a later date to pay off their initial investment as well as hopefully turn a profit.

Brian Dzyak
Cameraman/Author
IATSE Local 600, SOC
http://www.whatireallywanttodo.com
http://www.realfilmcareer.com

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Wow, that's a new question! 🙂

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Is that good or bad?

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I'd define a "hobbyist" as someone who does something with no intent to turn a profit or recoup "costs" at all.

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That is the definition of hobby as opposed to business. This is the perennial problem in tax law, and a business person can write off his expenses, while a hobbyist cannot. Thanks for reminding me. 🙂

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An "indie" or "independent" would be someone who receives financing via "alternative" means apart from the "norm" of Movie Studios. "Indie" films that are good enough and/or receive appropriate attention can subsequently receive "studio" backing and distribution which makes is seem like they are "studio" projects, when they really aren't.

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But aren't hobby films also indies, by their nature?

Can you give me some examples of good hobby films?

I would say all filmmakers and producers who make fan films make
movies purely as a hobby. I think I could say without argument
that there are tens of thousands of filmmakers making movies
purely as a hobby. And I think it would be fair to call them
indie filmmakers. "Indie" simply means a movie made independently
of a studio.

I would bet that many of them harbor at least some thoughts that
their movie will attract attention and turn them from hobbyist to
professional.

I think the ONLY way to start is as a hobbyist. I doubt that many
filmmakers (producers, writers and directors) start by getting
paid to make a movie. Same with key crew members like DPs
editors, composers, art directors.

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The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)

Well, in America, I can see how most aspiring film makers start by spending their own money (or begging/borrowing, which ends up being more or less the same as spending their own).

Elsewhere in the world, it isn't necessarily so. Back home in (what used to be) Yugoslavia, you'd finish high school, apply for the entry exam for the (state) film school and if you were one of the lucky ones to get admitted (you needed perfect grades from school, as well as lots of talent and wit; having a powerful political connection would alternatively help as well), you'd be all set. Education was (and still is) free at all levels (including post-doctorate degrees), so you'd go through film school and after graduating, it would be up to the amount of your talent whether you'd go making films, or end up directing TV commercials and soap operas. One thing was certain: you'd be virtually guaranteed to work in your profession (unless you had zero talent and were admitted due to your parents' political connections...). Yugoslavian film industry was moderately prolific (for the country's population), and virtually every film was directed by a person who at one point graduated from one of the national film schools (or abroad). And many of them were very gifted and directed some award winning features. I guess one good thing about the old communist system was that if you were lucky enough to be admitted to a (performing) arts school of any kind (music, drama, film, dance), your career would be pretty much set...

But, as you said, Yugoslavia no longer exists, and America has far, far more opportunity than the former communist Europe.

All the while I made short films (my first 9 years of filmmaking), they were definitely hobby films. When it came time to fund my first feature, it was time to get a business license. As you said, a business person can write off expenses, which has been crucial for me, over the years.

On the other hand, I don't make enough at filmmaking to quit my regular day job. Sometimes, I say that my hobby produces supplemental income. I don't care how I'm classified. Other people get really uptight about being called hobbyists, because they "love making movies, so much." :>) No amount of love or passion will produce money on its own. You have to sell product.

Interesting question.

www.midnightsunent.com

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Originally posted by Aspiring mogul

But, as you said, Yugoslavia no longer exists, and America has far, far more opportunity than the former communist Europe.

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I wouldn't blame Communism for that so much as "America's" propensity to create unfair trade policies, particularly when it comes to movies and other entertainment.

But that's another discussion. 🙂

Brian Dzyak
Cameraman/Author
IATSE Local 600, SOC
http://www.whatireallywanttodo.com
http://www.realfilmcareer.com

Can anyone refer me to any hobby film sites or film producers?

What are looking for? YouTube is a hobby film site. Just
about every short film posted there are made by hobbyists.

And producers who are making movies as a hobby don't
have listings so I can't imagine they will have websites
other than their own, personal ones. They aren't "Producers"
in the sense that producing is what they do for a living.
They make movies as a hobby and usually post them on
YouTube or MySpace.

Or maybe I'm misunderstanding what your looking for.

=============================================
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)

CI, you got what I'm looking for, and your answer is excellent. I never thought of YouTube. 🙂

But, at least as of now, YouTube doesn't have full-length features, so I'm looking to see if there are any hobbyists who have done amateur productions of TV series, or movies or documentaries.

How about, instead of "Hawaii Five O", we have the amateur production of "Puerto Rico Five-One"? Or, instead of "Star Wars", we have "Hardware Wars"? Stuff like that.

I know there are thousands of "Star Wars" fan films and parodies
along the lines of "Hardware Wars" Try Atom, swfanfilms, TheFource.net,
fancinematoday. My assumption is there are few fewture films that
are fan films. But I know there are some. That shot for shot remake
of "Raiders" comes to mind and a friend of mine has been working
on a new episode of Indiana Jones for about 5 years now. His budget
has exceeded $100,000 at this point and he's still several years away
from finishing it. There must be others out there make feature length
fan films.

If you type "star wars fan films" and "star trek fan films" into Google
you'll get tens of thousands of hits leading to the sites I mentioned
plus many. many personal sites. I suspect if you typed " Hawaii Five O
fan films" (or any TV show or movie) into Google or on the YouTube
and Atom search you will find something.

I know there is a huge "Twilight" fan film base as well as "Lord of
the Rings". You should be able to find hundreds of those types
of projects.

Vimeo is a hotbed for independent filmmakers and video artists. Mostly shorts, but you're far more likely to find professional/semi-professional films or series on there in comparison to youtube. Check it out, the "Staff Picks" will put things into perspective really quickly, as to whether it would be a useful resource or not.

Fanfilms.net is a pretty comprehensive site for fan films, and I've known about it for quite awhile.

http://www.fanfilms.net/

But, as you said, CI, it may be better to create your original work. So my question is modified to, what original (ie, non-fan film) works are out there? And good ones, I mean.

I can think of one or two good science fiction or horror movies that have done well, but I don't know much more than that.

Corax, thanks for the reference to Vimeo - I have to look into that much more. 🙂

There is a noticeable difference between YouTube and Vimeo. YouTube seems to attract anyone and everyone. Most of content there is either video blogs (someone sitting in front of webcam), short home-movie clips shot with a point-and-shoot still camera, or some promotional videos (band promos, TV show promos, advertising, etc). Vimeo, on the other hand, seems to be geared towards community of video enthusiasts. Significant proportion of content is "camera tests" (ex. a shot from Canon Vixia HF-S100 done at 1080p30 with cine mode on, and such). You'll see (proportionally) much more independent shorts. Also, Vimeo allows video longer than 10 minutes (as long as it is below 2GB), so with some careful balancing, you can put decent length shorts on it, without seriously compromising image quality. Actually, you could put a full feature there at 720p24, and still have reasonable quality.