Welcome to filmmaking.net!

No need for a lawyer. It can?t hurt, but there is no real need for
one.

The actors agent will require several things. You can contact SAG
to find out what is needed to hire on of their members. Also
check out the website: http://www.sagindie.org/

You should expect to pay SAG minimum (which I think is around $650
per day - the SAG rep will tell you when you call) plus first
class transportation and lodging if the actor is required to
travel.

You might be able to pay much less if your project falls into any
of the SAG indie contracts. The contract allows you to pay as
little as $100/day or nothing. But don?t count on finding actors
willing to work for those rates.

If you really want to use an entertainment lawyer I can refer you
to mine. She will charge you $300/hr (in 15 minute increments) for
a phone consultation and double that for reading over a contract
and advising you.

=============================================
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)

No real problem with that pay rate. What I wasn't clear enough on is that this is a textbook video project (gotta start somewhere, right?). The only "stars" will be the computer screen and the actor's voice; there will be no depiction of humans. My research has led me to believe that I would be paying per hour or per finished audio hour rather than a flat daily rate. (This is just audio recording.) I'm not sure whether this would qualify under any SAG contract or not or whether scale applies. I haven't yet been able to find whether SAG has voiceover minimums. That's one of the things I need advice on. (Or would someone at SAG tell me this stuff on the phone?)

I was hoping an entertainment lawyer could tell me things like the above, but at those rates, I don't know. I also assumed an entertainment lawyer would be willing to write the contract for me -- is that true or false, and how much might I pay?

Again, I apologize for what probably seem like dumb questions, but I'm dying to get on to some actual creative filmmaking and need to get this project done to dip my toe into the water.

Twickie

Any lawyer can write up a contract for you. And an entertainment lawyer can tell you what
the current SAG rates are. They will call SAG and ask.

And charge you for their time.

I'm thinking that for one project and one actor the expense isn't really worth it. You can call
SAG to get the rates and there are standard contracts available you can download, print and
sign. But if this is something you feel you can't handle on your own and can afford a (good)
entertainment lawyer then you should spend the time to find one.

Are you sure you need a SAG actor? The American Federation of Television and Radio Artists
(AFTRA) covers voice over talent. Many performers are a member of both. Are you thinking
of hiring a specific actor? Or just researching using union contracts in general? Have you
considered using a talent agency? Is using union talent essential?

=============================================
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)

I could be wrong but I think there are union rules that if you hire SAG you need to also hire a union DP and other Union crewmembers. That is why a lot of ultra-low-budget movies go without the SAG contract even though it is fairly affordable.

RJSchwarz

You are incorrect, RJ.

I use SAG actors on all my movies and have never used a union crew.

quote:

---

Originally posted by certified instigator

Are you sure you need a SAG actor? The American Federation of Television and Radio Artists
(AFTRA) covers voice over talent. Many performers are a member of both. Are you thinking
of hiring a specific actor? Or just researching using union contracts in general? Have you
considered using a talent agency? Is using union talent essential?

---

I do have a particular actor in mind. According to his resume posted on a talent site, he's SAG; since AFTRA is not listed, I assume he isn't. I guess this means that for voiceover work, I don't need to care about SAG contracts, status, etc? That's good news.

One of the reasons I'm thinking lawyer is the nature of the work; I will in all likelihood need updates to the audio track over time as the software itself changes and I'd like to see if I can do some provision for acquiring his future services. I also don't know whether residuals, percentages of revenue, and that sort of thing are customary for this type of work.

I'm trying to get all my ducks in a row before I approach his agent so I won't sound so amateurish that I'm laughed off. (Speaking of which, I'm getting conflicting opinions whether I should call and ask for his rates/interest or whether I should send a proposal or letter outlining the project.)

Twickie

It would be interesting to know the experience of the different people you are
getting conflicting opinions from.

If you have money and an actual job offer agents are interested. Many times people
who post on messageboards (both those asking the questions and those answering)
are not completely clear. Not out of deception, but out of ignorance.

I'm trying to decipher what you're really asking. Because your actual question about
needing a lawyer and where to find info about complaints against lawyers only brushes
the surface of what you're actually after.

Without a lawyer you can call the actors agent. Tell them you have a firm offer - day
rate ($800), exact dates you need him (April 6 and 7), exactly where you need him
(the Acme Recording studio in Tucson) and a little about the project. (a voice over job
for an educational video to be released to schools across the US). Inquire about his
availability. If the actor is available the agent will be willing to discuss the rate (it might
be too low), the dates (That week in April isn't good but the last week is) and everything
else - transportation, per diem, lodging and residuals. If you can come to an agreement
then you call SAG and get the paper work going.

If you don't feel comfortable calling and would rather send a letter, that's fine, too. If you
feel paying a lawyer to do all this is the better approach, that's fine.

Agents don't laugh off inexperienced producers willing to hire their client. They laugh off
wannabe producers who want their client for free to star in their no budget horror movie
because they are such big fans.

Would you like the contact info of my lawyer here in Los Angeles? She will charge you
$300/hr (in 15 minute increments) for a phone consultation and offer you the info I just
did for free. What she will do that I won't is draw up the contracts and even contact the
actors agent on your behalf if you want. At $600 per hour. You can find lawyers who will
work for less, I'm sure but I would get some nice brownie points by referring a client to her.

=============================================
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)

quote:

---

Originally posted by certified instigator

It would be interesting to know the experience of the different people you are
getting conflicting opinions from.

---

My own first thought was a letter; that's how business is done in my experience. It was confirmed by this: http://www.proletariatpictures.com/art7.html -- you can judge this article yourself. Those who said to call the agent were a couple of people on another discussion board I belong to -- some are involved to some degree in entertainment; others are amateur actors.

The author of the above article seemed to say not to represent yourself as both producer and director .. but that's exactly the case here. I'm not going to lie about it! This individual seems very cynical, but with my own lack of experience, I have no way of judging whether his experiences are average or not.

quote:

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If you have money and an actual job offer agents are interested.

---

Well, that's how I'd see it! That's certainly the case in general business. But like I said, I'm new to this, and we hear all kinds of things about how Hollywood works...

quote:

---

I'm trying to decipher what you're really asking. Because your actual question about
needing a lawyer and where to find info about complaints against lawyers only brushes
the surface of what you're actually after.

---

Sorry, I'm not trying to be opaque. I'm kind of an anal retentive type, want everything lined up as well as possible before I start so that when the emergencies *do* happen, I can concentrate on solving those problems instead of adding it to the pile of stuff I'm already juggling. I dunno, hopefully that's a good quality. I've written plenty of texts, but this is my first book sale to an external publisher and I've got a ton of work to do. Mistakes could seriously hurt my career.

In my own professional capacity (IT), if someone were to approach me for work, I would not consider anything more than a conversation unless a contract came along with it. Just too risky. I guess I'm of the opinion that professional actors would be the same way, but perhaps I'm just projecting my own perspectives here. When I call the agent, if they indicate it's a go, I want to have the contract ready to work with ASAP. My very small amount of experience with lawyers is that they don't work fast, so I need to get it ready before I call.

My business experience also tells me that looking in the phone book for a professional of any sort is far inferior to getting a reference from someone, even if I don't know them well.

I have absolutely no problem making the call myself. I think I'd stand a much better chance doing it interactively, but I don't want to be a bother or go against etiquette. The article author's suggestion to call the agent repeatedly was interesting -- it goes against my experience in publishing, where you do NOT want to bother the publisher to read your ms!

quote:

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Agents don't laugh off inexperienced producers willing to hire their client. They laugh off wannabe producers who want their client for free to star in their no budget horror movie because they are such big fans.

---

LoL! Honestly, I hadn't even thought someone might see it as coming across that way. I'm looking for a distinctive voice and I need someone who's professional and not leaving the business -- this particular guy meets those qualifications. If he doesn't work out, I have some others in mind as well as the various voiceover web sites and trying to cast local talent, but it seems much easier to work with a known quantity. The few I've come in contact with so far just don't come across as professional -- won't respond to email, don't have and won't make audition tapes/files, etc.

Well, then hopefully I won't get laughed off. I have money and I wouldn't consider asking even a novice actor to work for free. (It's really a poor choice when you consider the intellectual property rights issues, in my opinion.)

quote:

---

Would you like the contact info of my lawyer here in Los Angeles? She will charge you
$300/hr (in 15 minute increments) for a phone consultation and offer you the info I just
did for free. What she will do that I won't is draw up the contracts and even contact the
actors agent on your behalf if you want. At $600 per hour. You can find lawyers who will
work for less, I'm sure but I would get some nice brownie points by referring a client to her.

---

Please understand, I very much appreciate your input and am not dubious of what you're saying! 🙂 You seem to be by far the most knowledgeable person I've come across. If you wouldn't mind, I would actually like her contact info, and if I use her, I'll certainly mention where I got the referral.

Twickie

It?s an interesting article.

Right away I?m on the defensive reading it. He hates the agent
system. Then next paragraph is filled with emotional outrage
based on the writers own, limited experience. And it?s not
accurate.

Then the writer goes on to describe the very personal difficulties
one of his producers has faced. To me that?s just insensitive and
has nothing to do with approaching agents. Agents don?t care how
difficult a life the producer has had. I have no idea why he
includes that information in his ?article?.

I?m not going to take it apart line by line. But I suspect his
advice is how to get around the system he hates.

quote:

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4. Offers - The agent may then ask for an offer to do the part, if you can, make an offer. If not - improvise, but don't lie.
5. Dead in the water - you could be if they want escrow money, pay or play money and you don't have it.

---

He has no money to pay the actor. So he feels the system is
against him and his excellent project.

And it is. Agents want their clinet paid.

You have the money to pay. Agents don?t need to be bypassed (or
hated) if the producer has the money to pay their client. This is
the entire job of an agent. To weed out the ?work for free
because the script is great? producers from the ?I have a money
offer? producers.

Your experience in a different field is very different than
filmmaking. Agents are well equipped to work with first time
producers who don?t have full, completed contracts ready when
making an offer. SAG has made great strides over the years to
help producers with little money and no experience use their
members.

And many agents have specific contract requirements in addition to
the SAG agreement. It?s a waste of time (and money) to draw up a
full contract only to have to amend much of it to meet the needs
of the specific agent and client.

All very different from your IT and publishing experience and
business, isn?t it?

You won?t come across as a fan if you follow the guideline I
suggested. You are making a firm, money on the table offer that
is above union scale for a day or two. That?s VERY different than
hoping to get a name actor to work for very little money on a
feature film for 3 weeks.

Yes, there are definitely some aspects that are very different.

As always, good input, and thanks for your time and effort! I feel much more confident that I'm on the right track. Hopefully in the fall I'll be able to report a successful summer project!

Twickie

There are a lot of posts in this thread, so I kindof just scanned em a bit with thee old eyes, so sorry if my question has already been answered above. Is there a section on this forum about writing your own contract? If not; here's my question on the topic.

If you write your own; does it need to be in legalease mumbo jumbo? Like ''The party of the first parties rockin' party has to party with the 17th parties girlfriend'', lol. Can't you just talk normally and say ''You pay me for this, I do this for you. Sign here''?

quote:

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Originally posted by Carl
Can't you just talk normally and say ''You pay me for this, I do this for you. Sign here''?

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You sure can!

Cool. I don't even get why lawyers do that. Maybe to trick someone into signing up for something bad, lol.

It's not a trick. It actually is very much needed when a problem
comes up.

Just like us filmmaker have our own language that only crew can
understand ("Hey FNG! Grab me two apples. New York 'em by the
crank.") lawyers and judges have wording that is legally unarguable.

''You pay me for this, I do this for you. Sign here'' could be misunderstood.

=============================================
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)