Relax Machina. There isn't a "spat" here. A great thing about messageboards is we can explore ideas with other filmmakers. A difference of opinion isn't a spat. I'm enjoying it.

Excellent post, rj - you and I are on the same page.

All good horror films use laughter as a release. Even scenes that are pure comedy (the pie fight) don't make me think "cheesy". Low quality and bad style. I think funny, I don't think low quality and bad style.

I thought Shawn of the Dead was hysterical and not at all cheesy.

sword, as my sig says, I'm not trying to win or change your mind. Under your definition of "cheesy" I can't name a single zombie movie that isn't cheesy. Using my definition, I can name several.

To me a "cheesy" movie is the "Witchcraft" movies, "Zombie Chronicles", "Goth", "Vampire Femmes". Low quality and bad style. It's too bad you're sick of talking about it - I have found this discussion interesting.

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The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)

Thanks Instigator, I also don't consider this a spat but more of a disagreement on what cheezy means. I would consider all of Sci Fi somewhat cheezy by Swords definition yet I can't seem to call it that because like good zombie movies good sci fi movies *try* to say something and I tend to give credit for the attempt.

RJSchwarz
San Diego, CA

Just a difference of opinons mate. I'd have to agree and disagree with Machina on this one. Disagree with the spat part, but agree with the cheese. Hell, this is the best discussion i've had online since last months International Cyber Sex Convention.
The genre screams cheese and wine. By cheese, I don't mean bad style or low quality, I mean grows better with age, but at the same time it leaves an odd flavor in your mouth. A odd flavor in a good way. If you really want to have a good time, get a cheese platter and watch
all of the zombie flicks you can get your hands on. I bet you can tie each movie to a diffrent type of cheese.

Boy I'm out on a limb, put I hope the point isn't missed.

By the way Instigator, this isn't a movie, but on your list of bad cheese you forgot buffy the vampire slayer, not exactly a zombie flick but it reeks of fried limburger.

You people have held me back long enough, I'm going to clown college!

Full disclosure the movie I'm working on is a zombie movie (horror comedy http://www.drivetimeofthedead.com) and if you think zombie movies are easy or cheap I would instead suggest thinking about vampire movie instead. One actor who only needs teeth instead of a dozen or more actors that require full makeup, its much easier. And if any genre could use a shot in the arm and a new vision its the vampire genre.

But onto the plate of cheeze and zombie film festival concept. Every New Years day for some time I've watched a half-dozen zombie movies and mixed Zombies. Some are really bad, others not so bad, a handful are worth watching every year or so. Shaun of the Dead is the reigning king though. Love that movie and you can tell the creators loved the genre.

RJSchwarz
San Diego, CA

So what you're trying to say RJ is if a movie makes an attempt at saying something it then isn't cheesy? We crossed wires somewhere along the way here, lets get back on track.

You people have held me back long enough, I'm going to clown college!

Trying to say something doesn't mean the movie isn't cheezy but it does mean I'll give the movie the benefit of the doubt. I think of cheezy as embarassingly bad, either by intent (Troma) or accident (Ed Wood).

A number of zombie movies fit by that definition. By intent (Mulva, Redneck Zombies both by Troma, and I was A Teenage Zombie) and by accident (Zombie Lake). A lot of zombie movies are bad (Too many to name) but not intentionally bad.

My initial point was that I think filmmakers should not *intentionally* aim low unless they work for Troma (who has the nitch sealed up pretty well) or make films in a certain genre because they think the bar is lower for that genre than others. Fans of that genre will see the difference even if the filmmaker can't. I think a lot of the bad films come about because people think that way.

RJSchwarz
San Diego, CA

Ok, whne I think of cheesy I think of the coffee and wine tasting type of cheesy. To me it means of rather pungent flavor or style. Thats what the zombie genre is to me. It is pungent, which makes it very very appealing to the senses, but at the same time it turns others off because of its pungency. I don't think pungency is a word but you get the point.

I would agree with your statement of you don't think filmmakers should purposely aim low. No matter how lame this is going to sound I feel you should do it to teh absolute best of your ability no matter what you are doing. Thats exactly where bad films come from, from worthless buttpirates who don't give a damn. Good point.

Going back a few posts, you should all try the cheese platter zombie marathon anyway. Its quite delectable and entertaining.

You people have held me back long enough, I'm going to clown college!

If cheesy means "grows better with age" then the answer to your first question "Name three quality zombie movies that aren't cheesy" then my answer would would change. Zombie movies that aren't cheesy, that don't get better with age, would be enormous.

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Originally posted by swordofdoom
By the way Instigator, this isn't a movie, but on your list of bad cheese you forgot buffy the vampire slayer, not exactly a zombie flick but it reeks of fried limburger.

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Buffy, The Vampire Slayer is a movie. And a movie that I would call good cheese (according to your definition). It gets better with age. I even loved it the first time I saw it.

It IS kinda fun to debate "cheese" isn't it? Fun like watching zombie movies. Or making them. I've done a lot of zombie movies - they are great fun to make. On that link I gave of some of my zombie work, the last two "Zombie Group" - the zombie in the middle is me. It's also fun being a zombie.

Please tell me your kidding about Buffy. I had no idea they made that into a movie. I cry tears of blood, which given the material is kind of fitting.

quote:

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Originally posted by certified instigator

It IS kinda fun to debate "cheese" isn't it? Fun like watching zombie movies. Or making them.

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Indeed it is monsieur, indeed it is. But I still think Buffy sucks, no pun intended.

You people have held me back long enough, I'm going to clown college!

quote:

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Originally posted by swordofdoom

Please tell me your kidding about Buffy. I had no idea they made that into a movie. I cry tears of blood, which given the material is kind of fitting.

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Actually the movie was made into a TV show. I've never seen the show, but I liked the movie.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0103893/

Interesting, I had no idea. I'll have to see if its as god-awful as the show, which i really don't think is possible. Please, if you haven't seen the show, don't try to, no matter how tempting it may be.

This thread is like the autobahn. We've covered everything from zombies to gore to cheese to spats to Buffy. We're like the US Senate, only eons faster and with a shipload more intelligence.

You people have held me back long enough, I'm going to clown college!

The humor in the Buffy movie feels different. I think the writer/creator wasn't happy with it and the series is closer to his original vision. Having said that seeing pee-wee Herman as a Vampire alone makes it worth a rental.

RJSchwarz
San Diego, CA

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Originally posted by rjschwarz

Having said that seeing pee-wee Herman as a Vampire alone makes it worth a rental.

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..........wow, I really don't know what to say........wow......

And for Mr. Zrull, personally, I thought 28 Days Later was an interesting enough movie, but relied quite to heavily on SFX. I know they were trying to do an offshoot for the genre, but it little more realism and not so much SFX would have been nice. And indeed, I must agree that the older horror flicks have a much better feel then the new ones. Take all the Hitchcock movies, classics and creepy as hell no matter how many times you've watched them.

Did anyone else on here think all the Saw movies were dumb as hell. I'm normally a pretty sadistic mofo and would enjoy something like that, but that just pushed the limits of crappy film. Again back to the SFX, they were used too much, one couldn't connect with the film or the carnage, where as in older horror flicks, they relied more on the acting and live shots, allowing humans to relate. I can't really relate to computer generated pictures like that, it doesn't work.

Speaking of carnage if you enjoy that kind of thing, good flick to watch...

Batoru rowaiaru
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0266308/

You people have held me back long enough, I'm going to clown college!

quote:

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And for Mr. Zrull, personally, I thought 28 Days Later was an interesting enough movie, but relied quite to heavily on SFX.

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I just found it tedious, predictable, derivative and full of plot holes, myself. The only good parts were the start (probably ripped from the BBC 'Day of the Triffids') and the night-time battle against the zombies. The rest was at best a poor remake of 'Day of the Dead'.

It's as though the writer sat down for a week watching all the previous zombie/post-apocalypse movies and then threw random parts of their stories into one script over the weekend.

I enjoyed 28 Days Later until the end when they found the soldiers and it devolved into the same old thing. The spread of the virus, the emptiness of London, it was pretty creepy.

I also like the behind the scenes facts such as how they made London appear empty by slowing traffic for 30 seconds at a time, how they used DV cameras instead of standard film, and how the writer put in homages to a dozen zombie movies yet the director kept saying it was not a zombie movie.

It helped revive the genre and for that I love it even if it is full of faults.

RJSchwarz
San Diego, CA