Often a director is well into their next project before a stinker hits the theaters. At that point the money is going to let them finish the movie in progress rather than write it off.

Also, many stinkers still manage to make money so they aren't really failures when it comes to the 'greenlight' folks.

RJSchwarz
San Diego, CA

What's going on is not everyone has the same tastes. What
are "utter piles of garbage" to you might be movies that
writers, directors and producers thought were good and
worked hard on.

People are "allowed" to produce movie you and others don't
like because of the freedom our country offers. And the
directors "get" to make more movies for the same reason. If
a movie that you and others think is "utter shit" makes
money because me and others don't share your opinion, then
that director "gets" to make more.

Would you prefer this kind of FODDER not be allowed to be
produced at all?
How would that work? Would there be a committee of some
kind that reads scripts, lookes at the past movies of directors
and producers and then decide what movies are allowed to
be made?

I kinda like that I'm allowed to make another movie after I
make one that many people think is utter shit. I would hate
it if I wasn't allowed to make the movies I want to make because
some people who post on IMDb think my previous ones were
utter piles of garbage.

=============================================
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)

Whilst i really do appreciate the advice offered by the more experienced film makers here i have to disagree on a number of points made so far.

The fact is, if the VAST MAJORITY of reviews of a film all say its garbage then they all cant be wrong, can they?? If i was terrible at my profession i would expect to lose my job and i would also expect my record to follow me around making it extremely difficult to find work in the same area. So yes, i would expect people to think about whether a project is any good before they commit time and money into making it.

Thats unless my name was Ulli Lommel, creator of the legendary "Zombie Nation" amongst other turds, then i would carry on without a care in the world. There are many more examples but this one is as good as any.

I certainly expect people who make films for a living to at least have some amount of competence in it. Is that so unreasonable? This seems like one of the only proffesions where you can get away with being incompetent.

Okay, if the vast majority of restaurant critics say that McDonald's is crap does that mean the billions of people that jump in for a bite are all wrong? Or that the standards used to judge such things are different? What about Bud, I don't like them but they seem to be making a lot of sales. Someone clearly likes them. Are they wrong?

I could provide examples over and over. If something makes money it is a success. It might not be a critical success but it is a commercial success which is far more important if you want to stay in business.

RJSchwarz
San Diego, CA

Oh and I agree about Zombie Nation, it was foul.

RJSchwarz
San Diego, CA

Again, im talking about majority. in the two examples you gave there is a majority, Mcdonalds, very very popular, nutrition aside. Bud - immensly popular. Both make alot of money - great.

Im talking about people like Ulli Lommel and many others who's films hardly EVER are well spoke of. I doubt they make money worth talking about, i really do. How can someone who has been making films as long as he has make a product of such shockingly low quality, shit reviews and still keep churning them out??....people with zero experience could produce better.

Im curious, thats all. Its hard enough for people with great scripts and excellent skills to get a film made and you have people like this.

The movies make money, you can count on that. The curiousity, the clever title, the interesting DVD cover that doesn't look like the movie at all. And made for nearly nothing. Yes they make money, they are specifically designed for that.

Normally this sort of thing is associated with the Italians. After Star Wars there were a dozen horrible science fiction movies out of Italy capitalizing on the market. After Dawn of the Dead there were dozens of zombie movies. Road Warrior spawned post-apocalyptic and Conan spawned barbarian and sword movies. I don't know if the Italians got better or what but I don't know of any Italian knock-offs anymore.

Folks like your friend Ulli have decided to fill that niche now.

Zombie fans will buy anything, we'll make a zombie movie and feed the need. That's how Zombie Nation came about in my estimation. By the time the Zombie fans know who this guy is he's moved on to another genre to try again.

Oh, I'd like to add that some of the Italian moves were very enjoyable. Sometimes things just happen and the producers looking to get a quick buck run across a director like Lucio Fulci and most of the post apocoypse ones are a hoot. I'd also like to add that Roger Corman skirts the line we're talking about here a lot.

RJSchwarz
San Diego, CA

This has nothing to do with experience - you are discussing
opinion. And we all don't share the same opinion. That's how
"utter shit" gets made.

quote:

---

Originally posted by moonmin troll
The fact is, if the VAST MAJORITY of reviews of a film all say its garbage then they all cant be wrong, can they??

---

Is that really a FACT? Are you saying that the VAST MAJORITY is
always right? Even emphasizing your point in caps doesn't make it
so. Each person who doesn't like the movie is right. Does that
make the movie bad? If the vast majority of people hate a film
you like, do you stop liking that film? Because the vast majority
is right?

Does it go the other way, too? If the VAST MAJORITY loves a movie
does that make it a good movie?

If you would, if you believe the vast majority is always right,
then I can see where you're coming from. I believe in majority
rule in government - but not in opinion. I don't decide what I
like or don't like based on what other people feel.

Opinion aside, one of your points is economic. You may doubt Ulli
Lommel and many others makes money worth talking about. But that
is your opinion and nothing more. Maybe the money isn't worth
talking about, but if the filmmakers want to make another movie
with the little money they make why should they not be allowed to
do so? And if does make a profit - even if you doubt it is - then
the filmmaker will make another one.

quote:

---

Originally posted by moonmin troll
I certainly expect people who make films for a living to at least have some amount of competence in it. Is that so unreasonable? This seems like one of the only proffesions where you can get away with being incompetent.

---

What is incompetent? A movie you and the vast majority don't like?

I just don't understand where you're coming from.

I make a movie for $20,000. The VAST MAJORITY of people call it
"utter crap" and you feel I am incompetent and the movie makes
only $40,000 - not money worth talking about - but I choose to
make another one for $20,000.

You say I shouldn't be allowed to do that. Why?

So my three questions to you are:
Why shouldn't filmmakers be allowed to make movies the vast
majority thinks are utter crap?

Do you believe that the vast majority is always right?

If the vast majority likes a movie you don't like do you change
your opinion?

=============================================
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)

Ill try end explain what i mean i little clearer and i may have to generlise slightly or this will turn into an extremely long post indeed. My use of Caps was meant to stress the fact that i mean "not all" people but the "vast majority". There are always exceptions.

I do not know what level the people who post here are at in film whether it be making films for fun and to learn (like me) or making a living out of it but i assure you, i am not disrespecting anyone who makes a film regardless of the level as i know how hard it is to get even the smallest film made.

Again, using Ulli Lommel as an example, i find it very difficult to understand how someone who has been making films since the 70's can produce material of such poor quality in terms of script, acting, lighting, effects, make-up, editing etc, the list goes on. To then package the product (check the DVD cover for Zombie Nation) as though its a high quality film i find simply dispicable and as he has writer, producer & director to his credit on most of these films i dont see why he shoudnt take the blame. Many film makers have produced amazing films on similar budgets (see Following by Chris Nolan) so given this guys experience, there simply is no excuse.

Regarding the comment i made about money. I applaud anyone who makes a profit on a film they have managed to get made. The point i am making is, how does Ulli Lommel and the like get the opportunity to keep making films of such poor quality when i doubt they make alot of money. This point has since been answered by rjschwarz and it seems his films do make money. I was merely asking the questions as i do not have the knowledge or experience. I am still suprised though i must say.

Finally, to answer your three questions Certified Investigator, my answers are as follows:

1) People can make whatever they like. In the case of Ulli Lommel, if an experienced guy who could make better doesnt mind churning out garbage in order to make a living thats up to him. Do you think this is as good as he knows how to make? Do you think they are good films?

2)I think if you want a good indicator as to whether a film will be enjoyable, the vast majority provides that. I love David Lynch, now the vast majority of people dont like his work so they dont watch or review it but he still has great reviews mostly becuase people know what to expect and i know what I like so i trust my own judgement and watch his stuff regardless.

3) The vast majority of people like Lord of the Rings and i do not and i wont change my mind. However, i do respect the production values and other aspects of the film and since it has good reviews i will check it out.

Hopefully this should clear up any misunderstanding and i repeat, i have nothing but respect for genuine low-budget film making.

In Ulli Lommel's defense I suggest you watch the movie Ed Wood. A brilliant picture about a director who really thought he was making decent films.

RJSchwarz
San Diego, CA

Funny you should mention that, i watched a documentry on Johnny Depp which showed some of that film the other night.

Ive also just been reading up on the whole b movie/exploitation movie phenomena so its all becoming clearer now.

The important thing to remember is that some people love these types of films and some of the directors do as well and they are simply providing what they love for those that love it. Being a zombie film buff I've run into a lot of that and tend to give the benefit of the doubt to some pretty questionable films if I believe they were made with the best of intent. I'm not so sure about Zombie Nation though. It came off as a serial killer movie turned into a zombie movie at the last moment to take advantage of that genres overly forgiving fans.

RJSchwarz
San Diego, CA

Yeh, i see that now. To be honest its strange to me because im really not or ever have been into those sorts of films but i know people who are. Its difficult to understand the size of a market when you dont buy into it yourself. I work in design in advertising and it amazes me still what people will buy into and the size of the market for certain products.

I guess if your going to break into this business, like in any other industry, you wont always be involved in projects that you believe in personally. Thats a concept i struggle with on a daily basis!!!!

I think there are many people that have only worked on projects they believe in personally. If you don't care you might find a safer career in television. I also believe if you don't believe in the project it shows in the end product much of the time.

RJSchwarz
San Diego, CA