I always liked that it was an option not a necessity. But it feels like that's changing. I'm finishing a 2 year degree at a community college and have to make the decision about whether or not to continue. My professor keep stressing to stay in school as long as possible so you can use their equipment and make mistakes. Ok, I'll give them that.
But they're singing the 'get your BA and Masters' song a little too often. The only reason I'm scared of being done with school so soon is because I feel I need more training before getting out there. On the other hand, I can use that excuse long enough to get a BA or Masters so I can see why real world experience is better.
Are employers really into degrees now? It's hard enough finding an intern position that doesn't say 'students only' at the bottom. What are the experienced professionals saying? What do they want? This isn't medicine or engineering so why does it feel like the world is requiring degrees like everyone else? It's already going to be a little harder because I'm a female but I hope not having a few letters on my resume is going to be the difference between me getting near the door and through it eventually. What's going on here?
I depends on what you want to do.
Intern position at studios will be restricted to students, They do
this so they only have to look at 1,000 resumes instead of 20,000.
And, of course, professors are going to stress school - it's how
they make their living.
So what is it you want to be? If you want to direct, you can direct
movies without going to film school or being an intern. What "door"
do you want to get into? Again, if you want to direct that door will
open if you have several excellent short films and music videos
finished. Since you don't say here what your goal is I'm just throwing
out ideas.
If you feel you need more training before you get out there and make
movies, then school is for you. Stay there, get your degree and then
start working out there.
=============================================
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)
=============================================
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)
I want to be an editor and screenwrite as well. I understand 2,000 resumes vs 20,000. Professors are going to stress school and maybe I need to cast the net out farther in terms of companies I'm interested in working for but I'm trying to get a feel for what employers want. I'll be leaving soon and as I'm sure you can tell, I'm more interested in what they want. I know where I want to head but where's the world going?
If anyone could tell you today where the entertainment world will
be in 5 or 10 years they would be psychic and called crazy.
You want to write. Write five excellent screenplays and five episodes
of current TV shows to show agents and producers your talent. In a
couple of years you will need to write five episodes of the then current
shows, in a few more years you will need to write five different scripts
and so on if you have not gotten a job.
You want to edit. You should join up with a dozen different directors
and producers and build your reel and reputation as an editor.
In neither case will you need a degree. Excellent scripts (and contacts)
and an excellent reputation as a good editor who can deliver will go a
long way to getting and keeping jobs.
What I can predict is the job market will remain essentially the same in
10 years as it was 10 years ago. Fewer and fewer writers or editors are
getting full-time permanent work for major companies. Most are working
on a freelance basis. There are, of course, studio gigs, but they all started
as freelancers and worked into the more permanent jobs over many years.
Don't your professors tell the students what employers want? Isn't that
part of you you pay for when going to school?
=============================================
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)
quote:
Originally posted by 15filmakernyc
I want to be an editor and screenwrite as well. I understand 2,000 resumes vs 20,000. Professors are going to stress school and maybe I need to cast the net out farther in terms of companies I'm interested in working for but I'm trying to get a feel for what employers want. I'll be leaving soon and as I'm sure you can tell, I'm more interested in what they want. I know where I want to head but where's the world going?
You do NOT need a degree. A FILM degree, anyway. However, as an aspiring Writer, you SHOULD invest time in studying things like History and Literature and Sociology. You need things to write ABOUT and a strong background in communications and writing. Those are definitely skills that you SHOULD have and get a degree in.
Apart from that, I highly recommend that you do a lot of extracurricular study. Start with the website www.wordplayer.com Read EVERYTHING on that site. There are A LOT of books out there that claim to tell Screenwriters how to write and many are crap, but I recommend that you read these:
The Movie Producer: A Handbook for Producing and Picture-Making (Paperback)
# ISBN-10: 0064637247
# ISBN-13: 978-0064637244 The Movie Producer: A Handbook for Producing and Picture-Making
Film Scriptwriting, Second Edition: A Practical Manual (Paperback)
# ISBN-10: 0240511905
# ISBN-13: 978-0240511900 http://www.amazon.com/Film-Scriptwriting-Practical-Manual-Second/dp/0240511905/ref=cm_syf_dtl_pop_3
And write. Write a lot. Start with short scripts. Then work on longer feature length. Try to write sit-com specs based on shows you like. Just write and write a lot. You'll stumble a lot at first, but it'll come and eventually, you'll write something that you really think is good and then you can go back to your older stuff and rewrite them if you'd like.
It's a process but if you really want to do this for a living, it is possible.
Brian Dzyak
Cameraman/Author
IATSE Local 600, SOC
http://www.whatireallywanttodo.com
http://www.realfilmcareer.com
Brian Dzyak
Cameraman/Author
IATSE Local 600, SOC
http://www.whatireallywanttodo.com
http://www.realfilmcareer.com
Thanks for your frank thoughts and solid advice. I'll get on it.
By the way, we pay for professors to tell us we need as much school as possible for employers to sneeze in our directions.
That paper doesn't guarantee I can do the job and yet it's stressed more everyday.
quote:
Originally posted by 15filmakernyc
That paper doesn't guarantee I can do the job and yet it's stressed more everyday.
Having a university degree CAN make a difference in how people view you. I'm merely suggesting that a specific FILM degree isn't necessary. You're better off majoring in something else and minoring in film or just taking film classes on the side. The degree itself is silly. It's sort of like getting a college degree for plumbing. Nobody cares. They just want to know you can do the job.
Brian Dzyak
Cameraman/Author
IATSE Local 600, SOC
http://www.whatireallywanttodo.com
http://www.realfilmcareer.com
Brian Dzyak
Cameraman/Author
IATSE Local 600, SOC
http://www.whatireallywanttodo.com
http://www.realfilmcareer.com
quote:
Originally posted by 15filmakernyc
By the way, we pay for professors to tell us we need as much school as possible for employers to sneeze in our directions.
But they do not answer the question you have; you
want to know what employers are looking for. This
is why I dropped out of high school.
=============================================
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)
quote:
Originally posted by bjdzyak
quote:
Originally posted by 15filmakernyc
That paper doesn't guarantee I can do the job and yet it's stressed more everyday.Having a university degree CAN make a difference in how people view you. I'm merely suggesting that a specific FILM degree isn't necessary. You're better off majoring in something else and minoring in film or just taking film classes on the side. The degree itself is silly. It's sort of like getting a college degree for plumbing. Nobody cares. They just want to know you can do the job.
Brian Dzyak
Cameraman/Author
IATSE Local 600, SOC
http://www.whatireallywanttodo.com
http://www.realfilmcareer.com
I was told that people who don't have a degree are viewed as lazy and unmotivated. Not that I believed it.
What a horrible thing for a teacher to tell a student - even in
a community college. But then in some areas that might be true.
In film and TV (which your teachers know nothing at all about)
you will not be considered lazy and unmotivated if you have
three finished feature scripts, five TV scripts and several short
films and music videos as an editor to show.
=============================================
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)
quote:
Originally posted by certified instigator
What a horrible thing for a teacher to tell a student - even in
a community college. But then in some areas that might be true.In film and TV (which your teachers know nothing at all about)
you will not be considered lazy and unmotivated if you have
three finished feature scripts, five TV scripts and several short
films and music videos as an editor to show.
Exactly!
Too many kids leave Film School with a Film Degree and the sentence, "I want to be a Director." Those kind never make it there.
BUT, if you do graduate with a BA in almost anything except a film degree, AND you have a budding body of work (writing, finished projects), THEN you don't have to say that you "want to be a Director" because you already ARE one.
What most people MEAN when they say the maligned words, "I want to be a Director" is that they want to earn a living as a professional Director. That's an entirely different thing and requires far more than a filmschool or the degree they give you.
Some schools actually offer a Masters in Screenwriting! That's such a scam, if you ask me. That's like getting a Masters degree in sculpture or painting so that you can wave your degree around to "prove" that you're a sculptor or painter.
Brian Dzyak
Cameraman/Author
IATSE Local 600, SOC
http://www.whatireallywanttodo.com
http://www.realfilmcareer.com
Brian Dzyak
Cameraman/Author
IATSE Local 600, SOC
http://www.whatireallywanttodo.com
http://www.realfilmcareer.com
quote:
Originally posted by bjdzyak
Some schools actually offer a Masters in Screenwriting! That's such a scam, if you ask me.
Agreed.
I sold my first script at age 24. I dropped out of high
school at 17. No one ever asked to see a degree. To
this day I have never been asked to see a degree in
anything.
I'm sure college is great for many people - perhaps
even most people - but a Masters in screenwriting?
=============================================
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)
quote:
Originally posted by bjdzyak
quote:
Originally posted by certified instigator
What a horrible thing for a teacher to tell a student - even in
a community college. But then in some areas that might be true.In film and TV (which your teachers know nothing at all about)
you will not be considered lazy and unmotivated if you have
three finished feature scripts, five TV scripts and several short
films and music videos as an editor to show.Exactly!
Too many kids leave Film School with a Film Degree and the sentence, "I want to be a Director." Those kind never make it there.
BUT, if you do graduate with a BA in almost anything except a film degree, AND you have a budding body of work (writing, finished projects), THEN you don't have to say that you "want to be a Director" because you already ARE one.
What most people MEAN when they say the maligned words, "I want to be a Director" is that they want to earn a living as a professional Director. That's an entirely different thing and requires far more than a filmschool or the degree they give you.
Some schools actually offer a Masters in Screenwriting! That's such a scam, if you ask me. That's like getting a Masters degree in sculpture or painting so that you can wave your degree around to "prove" that you're a sculptor or painter.
Brian Dzyak
Cameraman/Author
IATSE Local 600, SOC
http://www.whatireallywanttodo.com
http://www.realfilmcareer.com
Isn't it like that with most art related fields? A musician who wants to learn about education, theory and performance might be an exception but (even though this makes me look like a hypocrite) someone who wants to be a painter should be painting as much as possible, a sculptor sculpts. I know from the several semesters I've taken so far that I've lost the level of skill I had for some things because of school. Aside from the few classes that allow you to make a film, it's hard to find the time to actually make a film. To be honest I've learned more in high school than I am in college but I never knew what other degree option would be good for me besides film. Nothing else seemed to 'fit'.
I think you're right, 15filmakernyc. Advanced schooling for the arts is not
needed. Trade schools, community college universities. If you feel you need
to spend time in school (or your parents do) getting a degree in business
would be the right fit. Not personally or artistically, but understanding the
business side of filmmaking is a strong advantage.
I'm always fascinated by these discussions. I have never met anyone on any
set who didn't go to college or film school who regrets that choice. But I have
met many who wish they had not gone. To be fair I have met many who do
not regret going to film school.
=============================================
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)
=============================================
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)
When considering a higher education, it's important to think about the PRECISE JOB you want to do in the film industry. Most "filmschool" curriculum are far more geared toward aspiring Directors and Writers and perhaps Producers.
But if you want to do ANYTHING else, then figure out what that is and then take classes specializing in that thing. So, for instance, you you'd like to be a Cameraman, then take some film courses, but definitely take specific PHOTOGRAPHY classes either at the University or in some other way. If you want to be a Screenwriter, a "film studies class" may or may not be helpful to learn the "film language," but you should also be taking A LOT of literature, history, communications and writing classes. A Production Designer or Art Director may want to invest time in art history, history, literature, sculpture, drawing, computers,...
You get the idea. I hope.
Brian Dzyak
Cameraman/Author
IATSE Local 600, SOC
http://www.whatireallywanttodo.com
http://www.realfilmcareer.com
Brian Dzyak
Cameraman/Author
IATSE Local 600, SOC
http://www.whatireallywanttodo.com
http://www.realfilmcareer.com
