Welcome to filmmaking.net!

Did you get that figure from filmschools.com?

I can't find a number but the 350,000 number is wildly speculative. So I'll speculate
wildly that there are 1.2 million students enrolled in US films schools at any given time.

I'm curious: what numbers are you crunching and what do you hope to learn from these statistics?

=============================================
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)

hey i appreciate the feedback and yes in fact i think that figure did come from filmschools. According to census figures theres roughly 16 million college students in the united states, and since film isnt one of the major majors, im thinking that maybe 1.2 million is on the high end? of course thats just a humble guess. im trying to get a good look at the number of students versus their job opportunities. since ive had a lot of trouble im starting to wonder if there is simply a dearth in hard data on film students.

I think 1.2 million is on the high end. So is 350,000 jobs. Do you think 750,000 is more
representative? And I wonder if that number is production/post production jobs or all
jobs associated with motion picture production: rental houses (camera, equipment, crafts
service, props, costumes) - transportation companies - catering - security - catering -
cleaning - location and studio services....

Now I never went to films school - I didn't even graduate high school, so I'm not much
into statistics. But it seems you would need to calculate more than film students at
colleges in relation to jobs available.

I've been on film and TV sets and on stage productions my entire working life. A good
percentage of my peers and colleagues never went to film school so people like me need
to be added, right? And I'm thinking you would need to calculate the percentage of film
school grads who never pursue a career. I personally know several dozen people who
never made it as a director and didn't want to work crew so they continue to work non
film jobs while they develop their own movies.

Are you calculating the numbers to see if you should even try to get into the business?

=============================================
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)

I found this to be interesting. If you've been to webfilmschool.com, the front page video says that 94% of all the famous Hollywood writers, producers, directors, and filmmakers have never attended a four-year film school. Something to think about while we're on the subject of whether to go to a film school or not.

94% of all the famous Hollywood writers, producers, directors, and filmmakers have never attended a four-year film school.

One could read that to imply that film schools tend to churn out journeymen that do a good job but do not stand out for originality the way thee famous ones do.

How much of making a movie outside the system, demanding self-promotion and the rags to riches story that follows is responsible simply for the fame of these famous folks.

One could also cynically ask how many famous Hollywood writers, producers, directors are actually all three. Self-promotion is a skill missing in most writers and in abundance in many Producers. I'm not sure film schools really teach you how to produce.

A snarky bastard could further parse that sentence to wonder how many of those guys got film degrees at a non-film school. Or attended a two-year film school and dropped out (Kevin Smith).

Although I tend to think film school is what you make of it and a lot of people would be better suited working on a set instead, this quote is somewhat lacking.

RJSchwarz
San Diego, CA

I just have one question for you, rj: Did you check out the website where I found that statistic?

No, just screwing around with the quote you provided.

I just watched part of the opening video. He includes actors with the stat which really adds to the worthlessness of the statistic since few actors go to film school to begin with and actors tend to be the ones that get famous.

I'm not saying the product isn't great, or that he's wrong about making your own movie. I'm just picking apart that claim.

RJSchwarz
San Diego, CA

Simems is selling a product. That doesn't mean he's lying, but it makes me wonder
how he came up with that unsubstantiated statistic. I, too, watched his video. Did
you notice that of the three filmmakers he mentions (Smith, Lee and Myrick) two
of them graduated from film school.....

=============================================
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)

Having said that I'd feel comfortable saying 99% of famous writers/directors/producers & actors did not attend a 4 year film school. Even if every writer/director producer did attend a four year film school the number of famous actors that did not would drastically overwhelm them. From my understanding the bulk of famous actors never completed a four degree at all, let alone film school. Film school would be pointless. Perhaps an arts school with a solid drama program...

He probably just scaled the number back for legal reasons.

RJSchwarz
San Diego, CA

Either way you look at it, 94% or 99% is almost the same as saying nobody goes to a four-year film school. So if I were to answer frankb's question, I'd say that the number of people who attend a four-year film school is extremely low. I don't know what the number is, but it's probably not a huge one.

Well if you were to limit it to just directors and other film crews, and non-famous ones you might get a far higher number that attended film school. It's the addition of writers/actors modified by famous that make the statistic worthless.

RJSchwarz
San Diego, CA

I love how Frank B never responds, hehe.

I think the underlying tone to Frank is if he should go to film school or not. If that is the question you ultimately wanted to know, then my answer would be only if you don't know where to start and still want to have a "college experience" I would go for it.

Nothing fancy, just honesty.

quote:

---

Originally posted by frankb

I was wondering if anyone knew the total of film school students enrolled in the United States.....I find figures that say theres roughly 350,000 film jobs, but I wanted to compare that against the number of students enrolled in US Film Schools. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

---

No one has precise numbers across the board, however the yearly estimates are that approximately 30,000 students attend the 146 University level film schools, programs, and workshops in 40 US states.

That number does not include the international students who attend the 555 schools in 65 other countries around the world.

IATSE boasts upwards of 30,000 members in 17 IATSE Locals.

The DGA has approximately 12,000 members.

The Screen Actors Guild has over 120,000 members.

If you're looking to determine the viability of getting a job by going to film school, there are problems by doing it this way. First, the numbers are deceiving. Each of the professional guilds may have that many members, but that doesn't mean that they are all working or still actively working in the industry. Also, there are thousands of domestic (US) and international film/tv workers who are not members of any union. AND, there are a lot of executive level jobs that are not affiliated with any union so those numbers are fairly uncountable. There are studios that everyone thinks about, but there are also scores of secondary content vendors, film labs, stages, VFX houses, rental houses, etc etc etc that employ people who may or may not have gone to filmschool.

So we have X number of people who consider their primary source of income as being generated by work in the entertainment/film/tv industry. And Y number of them went to filmschool, likely hoping to be Directors or Producers or Writers. MOST filmschools cater to "filmmakers" who want one of those top echelon jobs. They sell the dream while knowing that the reality for most students is going to be far different. There is usually just one Director listed on any callsheet and one Producer and one Writer... but there are hundreds of other jobs that must be done in order for the industry to function. So do the math... if, for example, 500 movies and episodic television shows are produced each year, that means that 400-500 Directors were working out of the thousands who WANT to do that job.

The truth is that quite a few working Directors got their start by working in one of the "other" jobs on set or off. A scant few working Directors made their "brilliant" short film and "got noticed." That's the dream that is typically sold by schools and many many of the expensive workshops out there. While playing the lottery could result in success, basing your future on it isn't the wisest thing to do.

Most people in the business at every level have built their careers by working in it and meeting people. Learning how the industry actually works helps people make better choices in how to guide their own career path. Playing the lottery by making the short film and going to festivals and hoping for that lucrative studio deal has an extremely low success rate. You could do that and get really really lucky, but more likely, you'll have a film degree (which is useless), a short film, and debt from both to pay off by working in some other aspect of the industry that you perhaps never even considered.

This isn't meant to talk anyone out of getting into the industry. The point is to understand that filmschool alone isn't usually enough to help the aspiring filmmaker build a viable career. There are a lot of people who go to school then are disappointed when that Directing deal doesn't come. You CAN do it, but usually only when you understand how this whole thing works. The odds are against you, but nothing is impossible.

Brian Dzyak
Cameraman/Author
IATSE Local 600, SOC
http://www.whatireallywanttodo.com

Brian that is quite a message, really well established.

The only thing I wouldn't say is that "film school is useless." I haven't gone to film school myself but I am a firm believer, it's up to the person on how they use their resources. If you go to film school, make contacts, gain valuable skills, it can increase your odds of finding success.

To break it down more simply, it's not the gun that is dangerous, it's the person using it that is.

Nothing fancy, just honesty.