A gun with blanks is still a gun. You will still need permission,
the police and an experienced person on the set.

There are several websites devoted to muzzle flashes and the
sound is ALWAYS added in post. The blank ammo fired on
professional sets doesn't sound the way you hear in the theater.
There are several discussions of adding muzzle flashes right
here on the boards. If I get the time later today, I'll search for
you.

Even if you use a realistic looking cap in a public place gun you
will need permission and to notify the police. Most of the time
you don't need to pay anyone - you just need to notify the
authorities that you are using guns on a set. Even fake guns.

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The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)

Most civilian guns do not sound like they do in the movies. They tend to sound a bit less loud and have more of a pop. The smoke is also not as obvious in reality as well. In fact it's hard to capture the smoke sometimes. Both are far easier to deal with in post.

If your initial attempts didn't look right it could be a number of things. The recoil of the fake shot, mistiming of the recoil and sound. Overdoing the muzzle flash. The fact that a toy gun may not really have moving parts (hammer, bolt or pump) like a real gun.

You might consider not showing the actual shooting. Imagine the character looks, sees the people about to shoot. Then the guy ducks for cover behind a car or something so he can see. We close in on his face as we hear the gunshots. His smile evaporates and expression slowly turns to horror. Then back to the gunfight to see one guy barely alive, covered in blood, crying for his mother. Another dead, a chunk of his head missing. A third barely able to stand, as he stumbles away from the scene.

You'd get the reaction from your character you're looking for without the actual gun fight being on camera.

RJSchwarz

They sell cheap airsoft guns online that have a "blowback" feature. Basically everytime you shoot the gun the magazine recycles just like a real gun, this is powered by a small canister of CO2 that fit inside the gun. adding realistic flash is not difficult using a simple computer animation software.

See:
http://www.airsoftmegastore.com/Gas_Blowback_Pistols_s/23.htm

I would definitely let local law enforcement know what you are doing before you actually start filming though as these guns look very realitic

A place like CollectorsArmoury.com sells blank firing replicas or stage guns.

http://www.collectorsarmoury.com/ep5sf/

They don't ship to Canada and there are shipping restrictions for California, Connecticut, Kansas, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New York, Puerto Rico and Wisconsin. From their website:

quote:

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"Our blank firing guns cannot be made to fire real ammunition. No license is required."

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I've been using Collector's Armoury since the 90's, for my shorts and features. However, the 8mm blanks are very loud and people can still call the cops on you!

Lately, I've been using Airsoft guns and After Effects/Vision Lab Studio for my gun effects. For convincing blasts, invest in muzzle blasts from either of these places:

DETFILMSHD.COM
http://www.detfilmshd.com/Collections_Overview.html

ACTION ESSENTIALS 2 at Videocopilot.net
http://www.videocopilot.net/products/

NCCINEMA.CH
http://www.nccinema.ch/webshop/

Here is a scene with non-firing Airsoft guns and composited flashes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02tSCbnJPA0

Here's a short I made with Collector's Armoury guns:

http://www.vimeo.com/1584042

www.midnightsunent.com

Yeah, if you want a muzzle flash it would seem that really the most effective way to do it would be to do it in post. If you really want to have a gun firing though and if you want an idea you could always try a farm. Firing weapons or igniting explosives in rural areas (as long as people aren't stupid about it) is commonplace and accepted. I don't exactly know what you want for this gun fight, but a Bourne Identity-esque sniper battle would be pretty easy to pull off if you permission or access for such a rural location.

Hmm, I find it interesting that your hunting rifle shot didn't work. I had a very similar shot using an airsoft gun (looks exactly like a modern high powered rifle) where the muzzle was off frame, and when she fired the point seemed to get across fine. This could be due to a variety of reasons though, including the fact that we had shots of the character being shot at and having dust kicked up (good old wooden boards!) beforehand, and probably moreso because of what we were focusing on. The focus was on her perception and the details of her face while she fired, so the audience was probably more ready to accept such a "fake" shot.

So that's something to think about as well. You have a film dealing with the psychological effects on the character, that will really dictate how you approach the scene. You could very well have an interpretation that doesn't necessitate a real gun, which could make your shoot a lot easier and perhaps a more effective film. Just something to think about.