Seems to me you were set up to fail. Bands are often filled with conflicting creative visions and you set yourself up with a limited time frame. Lastly when people are working for free they really have a great deal of power (especially when you can't continue without them because it is their band).

RJSchwarz

Hmm I guess you are right. I've got to start making short films now, or any film.

In my experience, the collision of the music industry and the film industry is fraught with problems. There are too many people involved who are creative and think that they know what's best.

So, given that situation, at the first sign of trouble (someone else trying to play the part of "Director"), you as the Director must hold your ground and be in charge. This doesn't mean you have to be inappropriate about it, but you can stand firm by listening to someone else's input/opinion, but then politely thanking them and explaining that it's best to continue on with what you've been doing.

If the urge to perform a creative coup continues, then you have to make a decision. It can be as simple as "My understanding was that you agreed that I would direct this and our previous discussions approved of what we would do. If you no longer want that arrangement, I'll graciously leave you to your project." Then you leave.

The minute you let the door remain open to opinions and comments in the moment you've lost control and then it's a project directed by committee. That never works. Wrong or right, somebody has to be the one "directing" the elements toward a common goal. Allowing everyone to toss their ideas in is a recipe for disaster.

Does this preclude taking ANY ideas or collaborating on set? Not at all. Many times, "accidents" and new ideas pop up on set that weren't thought of before. But it is the job of ONE DIRECTOR to decide whether to invest time shooting those ideas or not. That Director may be wrong or right in his decision, but if everyone agrees that you are the Director, then the responsibility will lie with you and you alone.

You're not there to be a "team player" when it means letting someone else take over the job you were hired to do. If they use that epithet (team player), it means that they are just unhappy that you're not letting them direct too. Ignore them if you can, placate them a bit if you need them, but mostly, do your best. If you aren't allowed to do that, fulfill your obligation as best as you can, then walk away with lessons that you will take away and use the next time.

Brian Dzyak
Cameraman/Author
IATSE Local 600, SOC
http://www.whatireallywanttodo.com
http://www.realfilmcareer.com

Agree with you on all the points. I tried to leave the project, but then I thought that I was being arrogant and self-centered. Moreover, they are good friends of mine. When I told that member that I was leaving this project, he said to me, "I'll make a good video without you, and I'll send you the link." Not in an arrogant way, but more of as a challenge.

Anyway, I've learnt the lessons, and I won't repeat these mistakes again.

Thank you for your valuable reply 🙂

The other thing to think about, you flew out to shoot in another city. Their noncooperation wasted not only your time but your money (Unless they paid or you happened to be in that city for another reason).

If the situation occurs again you might bring that up, you could also bring up that they could film their vision with the tiny camera another day but first let's try to get the shot as planned out.

RJSchwarz

I think it was Ron Howard who says to Actors who have their own ideas, "Okay, we'll do this one your way but then we'll shoot the one I'll actually use."

Brian Dzyak
Cameraman/Author
IATSE Local 600, SOC
http://www.whatireallywanttodo.com
http://www.realfilmcareer.com

?rjschwarz
Yeah, you're right.We actually shared the expenses for the journey, renting a room in a hotel, food and stuff. But I came back on my own.

They'll probably ask me for editing the video, and I don't know what to say to them. If they think that they've shot a good one, then they won't ask me. Texted them about the video last night, and their replies were kind of arrogant.

I was most surprised by the fact that they were calling me selfish for leaving and taking the camera with me. The plan was to complete the shoot on that day only and it could have been completed. I'll probably work with some professionals from now on.

?bjdzyak

Lol! Good one. I'll will use it the next time 😛

An acting teacher once said to me, "An actor is a frustrated director, and a director is a frustrated actor."

This is true!

Im a director for hire. I have shot music videos under the same
circumstances as this. I have a different perspective.

As rj said, band members are filled with conflicting creative
visions. This means a director must be even stronger - and in many
cases willing to back off and work as directed.

One hell of a conflict, isnt it?

But when everyone is on, essentially, equal footing thats the way
it must be. When everyone is sharing expenses then everyone feels
their creative input should not just be heard, but implemented.
Youll know better on your next gig. Tell them you have final say,
or you would work with them.

For me its all about the experience. Even now, after directing
over 30 music videos. I no longer spend my own money, but I do
still work for free. Sometimes I get the final say - most of the
time I dont.

In this case I have a different opinion than Brian. You are there
to be a team player. If that means using actors who are
girlfriends and not actors, then you do your best with what you
have. When the concept changes, roll with it. Frustrating as hell,
but fighting over it creates delays. When every band member and
their girlfriends wants to be the director, listen carefully to
what they want to do. At some point the actual director will have
to make a decision.

Sitting down on a chair and watching after being told you were
being negative wasnt (in my opinion) the best way to handle that
situation. Ive been there. I apologize, tell them I now have fife
different people with five different ideas but I can only use on.
I ask that band member whose idea I should follow and let them
fight it out.

Where I do agree with your stand is leaving and taking the camera.
Band member often have very short attention spans and making a
music video isnt as fun as they thing it will be, But a deal is a
deal. If you said you would bring the camera and shoot for one day
and they change that deal, its on them.

None of this happens on a shoot where everything is set in stone
before the shoot starts. There are still creative conflicts but
they are less when there is money being spent. A music video made
like yours is going to be one hell of a challenge. Thats when, as
a director, I back off from the creative and become a traffic cop.

And I head home with less stress.

=============================================
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)

Think everyone's said everything that needs to be said already here. 🙂

But just another thought navio. I personally don't have experience with music video directing, but I know what it's like to be a musician. Music, especially in a "band" situation, is a lot more organic than film. Changing something off the cuff in the middle of a production could be disastrous for a film, but even if something goes wrong with a new instrumental part or something, you've still got the band to back on, and the rest of the set. So, something that I could see some band members not understanding is the need to have a consistent vision for the sake of good edit. You/they wanted to do a story-driven video, then it needs to make sense in the end. Throwing things in on the fly could really screw it up, especially if the one making the input (ie. inspired band member) can't see that his suggestion just won't work when it comes time to edit.

Suggestions are awesome, there's a lot of details that directors can miss that a quick suggestion from an actor or crew member can fix and improve, and they usually mean the team cares about what their doing. But they can also grind the production to a halt, or just make it a big mess.

Thanks for your replies C.I. and Corax 🙂

How is it possible to roll with the concept change, if we already shot some portion with the original concept? It would look bad in the final edit, as there will be no cohesiveness.

I know I could have been more diplomatic while dealing with the situation, but it's gone now. I'll keep it in mind in the future.

As Corax said, consistent vision is really imporatant. So, there was one scene in which 3 of them (lead singer, girl, and that member)enter in a coffee house and sit down. We were doing this in stop motion. And that girl suggested to include drinks in the very next frame after sitting down. How could that be possible, logically? And those drinks were almost empty. They were hell bent of inlcuding those drinks, and after a lot of talking, I went ahead with it. They were not ready not see how badly it would affect the continuity and would make my job a hell as an editor.

And then, that member I was talking about, he suddenly became the one who would give directions on how to act out the scene. First, he was not able to act propely, and when he finally did his part (which was over-acted), he started giving directions to the singer, who was not able to do anything. I was asking him to depict a certain kind of emotions, and that member was asking totally different, and he tried to approve one of the most over acted expressions that I've ever seen. That girl was trying to tell the singer something different. And that singer was saying please only one of you give me the directions lol. Not trying to be arrogant, but I've studied acting myself, and I could see what his problem was. But none of them were ready to listen. It was a big mess.

And then we went to another location, where we had to shoot one simple scene. Boy and girl are sitting at one place, talking, boy is bored, not paying attention and and then he starts smiling at other women in a flirtatious way and that girl gets pissed off. It was a really simple scene.

But that girl gave her own suggestion. She said the boy will be waiting first, then the girl will come, they'll hug, then she'll say sorry for coming late, then he'll do the whole smiling thing.

I couldn't see the need of that whole drama in the first place. We had to put this whole scene in like 7-8 seconds during the final edit, and it could have taken a lot of time to show the whole scene, which was suggested by the girl. I tried to explain it to her, but she didn't listen and ofcourse, others also didn't listen and I went ahead with it.

And those people wasted one complete hour by talking, clicking pics of each other, playing guitar and applying make up when there was no need.

When I was leaving for my home, I was feeling guilty for not being a team player. And I thought I was being selfish. But not anymore.

Yeah naviobb, I'm sorry to hear you had such a rough shoot. 🙁 Doesn't sound like very much fun at all... guess there will always be rough gigs!

I'm just going to combine a bit of what everyone's said so far now. To throw in a quote from CI here:

quote:

---

You are there to be a team player. If that means using actors who are girlfriends and not actors, then you do your best with what you have. When the concept changes, roll with it. Frustrating as hell,
but fighting over it creates delays. When every band member and
their girlfriends wants to be the director, listen carefully to
what they want to do. At some point the actual director will have
to make a decision.

---

To add to that: when the decisions of the other team members would be negatively affecting fundamental things like continuity and coherence, then that's another place where you need to make a stand. Especially in stop motion, it needs to be very well controlled. If you have continuity issues it's going to look like crap, which you of course don't want. But the band's not going to want that either, they want a quality product as well. Unless they're avant-garde visionaries (in which case you'll be at their whim 😛 ) they will most likely listen to you if you make it clear that this suggestion will be detrimental for practical and technical reasons.

Subjective stuff, like outfits, acting, characters, story... the fun stuff? Probably going to have to be some leeway there. But for the fundamental things that you, the director/cinematographer/editor, are in charge of (ie. "No, that pose doesn't line up in the frame" "No we need the glasses there for continuity, sorry. It will be really jarring once it's done, you don't want that, trust me" "you're not mouthing the words clear enough, the audience will have a hard time seeing that" etc) that's where you really need to, well, take charge.

Boy I'm saying a lot for never doing this myself. More experienced members, correct me if I'm wrong in anything I'm saying here. I'm still a young cub. ?:p?

This is sorta how I look at directing; as sad it sounds, it's hard to be everyone's friend when directing something. Sometimes you just have to show up with a air about yourself that you know more about directing than anyone else and don't say phrases like "I was thinking it could go this way.", say "I've wrote this character to do this at this point." and don't really speak like your questioning your own ideas. If someone just is being problematic, listen to their ideas fully, even compliment them, but if you don't like the idea, make up an excuse why your camera wouldn't be able to capture that idea or something. Finally, you truly do have to have an open mind; no one is perfect, and a collaborative effort can truly add so much to the video instead of subtracting from it.

Oh yeah, on screen chemistry is something I'm so picky about! But at the end of the day, you can't tell an actress to go home if she's already there. You simply just have to make her look different, tell her to fix her hair differently, make an emergency trip to a Goodwill and change her outfit. There are definatly things that can be done to change someone's "look" if what they showed up looking like doesn't fit the personality bill!

=D

Thank You very much for creating this thread. I too am going to start my first music video this summer, as a mater of fact it's my first project as director. I haven't even been to film school yet but I met alot of knowledgeable film students/ graduates on my last unpaid internship who are willing to help me out.

It seems the biggest issue you had was the band and cast overruling you as director. That's definitely something I'll try and keep in check on my shoot.

Also did you end up doing any of the editing for the final video at all? I'm going to have some help in this area but main concern is synching up specific parts of the video to the music (i.e. visual effects to the drum.)

Tryin' to live the dream, any advice?