I think you're right that movies made in the States get a wider audience than movies made in Holland, but movies are made all over the world.

If your goal is to become famous then the States is probably your best bet. That said, there are famous directors from the UK, Hong Kong, India, France, Germany and (as you pointed out) Holland.

I assume that digital video cameras and editing software is as available in Holland as it is in the States.

My suggestion is to start small. Make small movies right now. Don't wait until you have big Hollywood budgets and a wide audience. Having Hollywood as your ultimate goal is a good one - lot's of movies are made here. So before you make the move, make movies. Make several short films and enter them in international contests - make a really good full length film and enter that in international festivals. Show how talented you are as a director before you join the ranks of tens of thousands of filmmakers moving to Hollywood each year.

I know Verhoeven made several films before moving to the States. It was "Soldaat van Oranje", "Spetters" and the amazing "De Vierde man" that brought him to the attention of American producers.

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The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)

So in the case of Verhoeven, it was the US that discovered his. Even though I haven't thoroughly read about that that particular chapter in his life, I always thought it was he who decided to take the next step by going abroad. That aside...

I need some motivation now. Seeing Lost in Translation for the second time (this time with more insight into the filmmaking process), and taking a look at the behind-the-scenes work has more or less convinced me that this is what I want to do. However, the obstacles are quite intimidating.

I'd requested some information from the LA Film School for the heck of it and received a brochure with stuff about the school. However, it was quite depressing. The entire school seems to be focused solely on forging blockbusters, like it's some breeding ground for the new Michael Bays lol.
It kinda brought me down, thinking that these films would be the only thing I'd be allowed to create. But I believe there are other schools that have other values. For instance, there are some schools in Holland that do offer a certain education in filmmaking, but they're far from prestigious. Then again, after reading some remarks on this forum on the exagerated value of filmschools, I don't feel that bad about choosing to study there.

But then what? With a degree in my pocket, what's the next step? I'm really a newbie when it comes to after-school life. I don't know what people do after education. Do they find jobs straight away and climb up in their career like that? If that is so, then that must be my roadmap to hollywood :p

However, this brings me back to Verhoeven. Few might know this, but Verhoeven has actually studied physics in a renowned Dutch university. He only started making movies when the navy which he joined was looking for people to shoot documentaries of them. So he became famous by coincidence? Could I, by the same coincidence, fail in filmmaking by lack of demand for my skills? It's frightening.

All in all, I'm feeling very lost. Although Lost in Translation has taught me that not all Hollywood films are shallow, I'm getting a little scared thinking about it all.

From a professional point of view, what's your outlook on my position? 🙁

Hollywood is all that you say, and because of all of that success hundreds of thousands are all trying to break it there. It is a lot harder to get noticed there and it might be better to make a splash in Holland to start with.

I would recommend making movies in English to get a wider distribution but that's just me.

RJSchwarz
San Diego, CA

Sounds like good advice...

Now what happens when I find a job. An interesting question: How much does it pay? Now I know it differs, and I know that the better you're known, the better the offers become, but you don't exactly receive a paycheck by the end of the month now, do you? It's basically freelance, right? And this is assuming you won't work for some television broadcasting network where they send you out to make specific films periodically.

You'll basically be out of a job most of the time, right? Coming up with new ideas, or working together with other screenwriters to come up with an idea, it all takes time. With that in mind, the pay ought to be generous, considering you won't get paid for a long time after that lol.

Just sell out!?:D? Direct a bunch of music videos and perfume commercials, then make CATWOMAN the movie. It's good to want people to see your films and hear your voice, but hopefully you arent pursuing this career simply to get rich or...ummm...whatever. You can still make it, and get some deals from big places, if you make something really good and authentic...something you really mean and really believe in.

We must all surpass eachother.

Draw me after you, let us run.

lol I was afraid for that reaction. No really, don't misunderstand me. The money is far from my primary reason, but I can't ignore the facts; If this profession is gonna lead to me being broke all of the time, it's simply not worth doing it, no matter how you look at it. If I'd wanted to make a lot of money I'd have gone to business school, got a regular job, get a regular pay check, climbed up my ordinary career ladder and died an ordinary, rich man. But I want something that can connect to many people, not just my little team of stockbrokers or whatever lol.

No, this is something more profound 😛
I'm pretty sure this is the road I'm going to choose, but it doesn't mean I'm gonna want to do it practically for free.

Alot of people work for free on filmsets while they learn their craft and how things work. Others work in television or on commercials (less time invested, lots of different projects). I'm sure a lot do all of the above.

If the Netherlands has government assistance for filmmakers you might track them down for advice. Who knows, you might try to contact Verhoeven (for a job or simply for advice). Back in the early 80s an 18 year old filmmaker contacted Sam Raimi and Raimi ended up Executive Producing THE DEAD NEXT DOOR with the kid. You never know. Sometimes pure guts can get you through/

RJSchwarz
San Diego, CA

Another way to look at things. You are in the Netherlands, that's instant production value. For a Hollywood movie to be shoot there would cost a lot of money, for you to shoot there, very little.

Come up with a story that is very Dutch. Use and twist the stereotypes. Somehow work the traditional wooden shoes into the story (wearing them, mocking them, using them as a weapon, whatever) so they can be used on the poster. Either that or a windmill 'cause that's what people think of so you might as well use it, twist it, conquer it. Use the confusion over the Dutch/Danish name, that or the Holland/Netherlands thing by tourists could probably be milked for a pretty funny bit or two as well as a tag line.

You are actually in a pretty good position to stand out and make a name for yourself if you plan things well. Big fish in a little pond is often an advantage starting out.

RJSchwarz
San Diego, CA

The key difference between the arts and other professions is schooling and a degree don?t matter. Schooling CAN be important to many people, but it?s not essential for success in filmmaking.

The producers who are buying scripts and hiring directors are more interested in your talent than in your schooling. When I go into surgery, I CARE that my surgeon went to medical school. When I sit down in a theater to watch a movie I don?t care if the director has a degree in filmmaking. Producers are the same way. When they are choosing what film to make next they are more interested in seeing finished films than a film degree.

I really can?t add anything to my original suggestions. Make movies starting right now. Finish three or four short films, then finish two or three feature films. If that take you four years you will have three finished, full length films by the time you?re 21.

Then when you hit Hollywood as a hot, experienced 21 year old director you won?t have to worry so much about looking for work with a degree in your pocket.

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The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)

Hmm, I realise now that I've never really considered seriously building up my career in Hollan, at least for a start. I see now that it can prove to be quite rewarding. There's one more thing that I'm worried about though, when it comes to the Dutch as a movie-viewing audience:
They have zero taste!

For instance, Lost In Translation, a movie that I consider one of the best existing motion pictures to date, received an average of 2,96 out of 10 (as voted by the average audience, not the serious critics). It's the same public that gave Cradle to the Grave a, 8,55. Quite depressing lol. I'll find a way to get around that though hehe.

rjschwarz, I like that idea of a humorous film about the Dutch life. Everybody loves a good parody. Look at Lost in Translation. Its success is due in part to its brilliantly stereotypical yet hilarious portrait of Japan and its people 🙂
Still makes me snigger when I remember certain scenes, too ?;)?

However, this still hasn't answered my (relatively unimportant) question about finance. I'm still interested in the lucrativity of the business, just to get a proper impression.

Then there's another question I have: How bad is the uncertainty? I mean, like I mentioned before, I suppose you'll be unemployed most of the time, and it's even worse when you're just starting out. Once you finish film school (or not), what's the first thing to do? Should you just wait for the opportunities to arise, or should you pick really any chance that comes your way, no matter the type of work? The uncertainty I mentioned is the one about finding an employer, building up a career and actually having a structure in it. Do any of you have any ideas on that?

To start with you will probably need to work another job. If you are lucky that can be in the industry. If not comfort yourself with the knowledge that Tarantino worked at Hollywood Video (a Califorania video rental chain) up until he made Reservoir Dogs. If you don't get a job in the industry you should at least try to find some independent films and try to work on them, for free if you have to, for experience and contacts.

You cannot reasonably expect to jump in with both feet and make millions right away. Even if you are truly gifted, unless you put up the money yourself someone else will own your film (or a good chunk of it) because they put up the money that made it possible. Put off the thoughts of money for now and work on the skills and contacts you will need.

RJSchwarz
San Diego, CA

quote:

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Originally posted by Jericho

Hmm, I realise now that I've never really considered seriously building up my career in Hollan, at least for a start. I see now that it can prove to be quite rewarding. There's one more thing that I'm worried about though, when it comes to the Dutch as a movie-viewing audience:
They have zero taste!

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So do most Americans. But that doesn't stop filmmakers from making movies they have a passion for. Some are successful, some not so much. The more you worry about the movie tastes of others, the more you second guess what YOU should be making.

Make the movies you want to make. And get started now. It's not going to be easy and it's going to take a lot of time and effort and pain and money. But if you don't do it...

quote:

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Originally posted by Jericho
However, this still hasn't answered my (relatively unimportant) question about finance. I'm still interested in the lucrativity of the business, just to get a proper impression.

Then there's another question I have: How bad is the uncertainty? I mean, like I mentioned before, I suppose you'll be unemployed most of the time, and it's even worse when you're just starting out. Once you finish film school (or not), what's the first thing to do?

---

Should you just wait for the opportunities to arise, or should you pick really any chance that comes your way, no matter the type of work? The uncertainty I mentioned is the one about finding an employer, building up a career and actually having a structure in it. Do any of you have any ideas on that??/quote?
It's a very competitive business. We don't pursue it because we can earn a living - we pursue it because it's unthinkable to not pursue it.

One of the reason your question has gone unanswered is because no one can tell you if it will be lucrative for you. You may very well come to Hollywood, go to film school and never make a movie and never earn any money and have to head back to Holland.

But maybe you'll have the drive and the talent to make a movie that people actually like and it will be very lucrative.

Only YOU can decide what's best for you. Some directors wait until the right project comes along and work in another profession while waiting.

I take any and all work that comes to me. Some people have called me a "sellout" and that's okay. I love working and I love making money. When I'm not directing, I do crew work, I operate a camera (I've even shot porn) I work in theater and even on game shows.

I have yet to find structure. In all my career I have never had long term, steady employment.

It sucks that there is no one path to making a living as a Hollywood director. But then if it were easy, then even more people would be doing it. Since it's so difficult and each director has taken a different path, success is even sweeter.

When are you going to shoot your first movie?

I see now that the path of a director is indeed an uncertain one, but I've decided not to let that stop me.
But now there's something else that's delighted and shocked me at the same time.
There is in fact a very suitable film school in Amsterdam. It's a genuine filmacademy, teaching you all the traits you need to know before sending you off into the world of filmmaking with plenty of experience too. The downside is: It's a 4-year study.
After seeing that the LA Film School offered a 1-year study to teach you everything you need to know, I mistakenly thought this would count for all studies. Unfortunately, it doesn't.

Now this brings me back to something that's been disputed for a while on this forum, as I've read: The actual necessity of a film school education. Is it worth going to filmschool at all?
We've already discussed the fact that your future employers will be much more interested in your raw talent and skill than a sheet of paper. However, you do need to learn the skills somewhere, right? You can't just expect to learn everything about directing, lighting, photography etc. just by hanging around at a set for a while?

So here's my dilemma. If I go to this filmschool, I might end up jobless afterall with nothing but an abundance of knowledge about film. If I don't follow filmschool, I'll have to gather experience along the way as I learn everything from scratch "on the set". And then there's the issue of actually finding a place to gather that kind of experience. Do filmmakers regularly post stuff like that in newspaper ads? Once again, I'm clueless ?:p?

A 1 year film school will teach you only film and the only students are likely to be film students. A 4 year film school will teach you other subjects just like a normal college. You'll get a better rounded education. In the USA the top film schools (NYU, USC, Chapman) are all 4 year schools that teach other majors as well.

One of the big things about a film school is that networking, the access to people and companies that you might not have going it on your own. For some that is very valuable, for others it is worthless.

RJSchwarz
San Diego, CA