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kodak 16mm k100 turret

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(@brian669)
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i have a very clean, good condition k100. i am very unfamiliar with the camera and how to use it and basically how it works in general. i am not sure what all the parts are and what they do, etc. i have a lot of parts and possibly several other k100 camera's in great working shape. i'd like to at least know how to use thie thing. i have a few questions...

*is there somewhere other than the manual (e.g. a site) that i could learn how this camera works and what its features are?

*could a decent film (horror?) be filmed with this camera? what are some of the pro's and cons?

*how would post-editing work - as far as sounds and possible computer editing?

i have a few more but i'd like to hear some opinions about the camera and using 16mm film first. thank you for your time.

 
Posted : 30/10/2007 6:03 pm
(@markg)
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I haven't used that particular camera, but two problems I would expect are:

a) no crystal sync, so sound will get out of sync with picture.
b) it's probably loud enough to interfere with sound recording.

That's not to say you can't shoot a decent movie with it, but shooting with dialogue will probably be difficult. You may find you have to cut the dialogue up into individual words or phrases and sync it up manually with the picture in the edit.

 
Posted : 31/10/2007 2:17 am
(@brian669)
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so is thing worth keeping? anybody else have any comments/suggestions?

 
Posted : 04/11/2007 6:04 pm
(@markg)
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Well, Peter Jackson made his first feature on a 16mm clockwork Bolex, so it's certainly doable. Just a bit of a pain.

 
Posted : 04/11/2007 10:48 pm
(@brian669)
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so this camera does or does not record sound? i was under the inpression it recorded no sound for some reason.

 
Posted : 05/11/2007 9:15 pm
(@certified-instigator)
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You are under the correct impression. That camera does not
record sound. Unlike video cameras, film cameras don't record
audio. There were 16mm news cameras in the 1940's through
the 1960's that recorded audio to a magnetic stripe on some
film stocks, and there was Super8Sound - cameras that did
the same thing. But no 16mm camera records audio. You must
record the audio onto an audio recorder when making the film
and sync it during post.

In that case the camera and recorder must be controlled "in sync".
That requires a motor which will run at a constant speed - for
both units.

=============================================
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)

=============================================
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)

 
Posted : 05/11/2007 10:08 pm
(@brian669)
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thank you for the reply.

now, i have a professional grade recording studio in my home and own almost every high end mic i've seen mentioned here and elsewhere along with analog and digital mobile recording hardware. as far as the audio end of things i am very well versed. but how do i go about syncing the camera with the audio in that situation? or better yet, what are some recommended audio solutions?

basically, i have a lot of movie idea's and am capable of writing but i cannot seem to get on the same page with a person who has knowledge of the filming/directorial end of things so i am trying to learn as much as i can and do it myself the way i vision it. i've found that the majority of films i prefer are filmed so i think i'd like ot try and use this camera to learn the ropes. i really can't seem to find info on this camera or any real beginner info on film camera's.

 
Posted : 06/11/2007 1:11 am
(@markg)
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I think Peter Jackson did all the sound in post, recording dialog synced to the picture he'd edited. If you have your own recording studio that may be a good option.

 
Posted : 06/11/2007 1:26 am
(@certified-instigator)
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You will use a "slate" or "clapper board". Roll both machines and
place the slate in front of the lens with the mic close by. Have
someone - typically the second assistant camera person or
"clapper/loader" - say the information written on the slate (for
the audio) and then hit the "sticks" together making a visual
and audio record.

Transfer both the film and the audio to digital format (typically
a Quicktime format .mov and AIFF) to put into the computer.
You will now have one visual frame where the sticks of the slate
meet and the audio of them hitting. You will line these up in
your editing system and now the audio and picture are in sync.

What Mark has been saying is, since the camera doesn't have a
sync motor the actual frame rate isn't 100% constant so the
picture will drift out of sync quickly. Cameras with "crystal sync"
motors and audio recorders with the same will hold a constant
speed so even very long takes will stay in sync.

With the camera you have, you will need to constantly adjust the
audio and picture to keep them in sync. Not impossible - but
very time consuming. Sometimes the sync will drift after just a
few frames. Which is why filmmakers use sync motors and not
spring wound motors.

I suspect the reason you can't find much information on the K100
is because it's a very old, discontinued camera. the use of that
camera is very similar to the spring wound Bolex cameras. They,
too, are older and discontinued, but many people still own them
(I have three) and you might find more general info about them
then about the K100.

=============================================
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)

 
Posted : 06/11/2007 1:38 am
(@brian669)
Posts: 7
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ahh. i see. the light bulb just came on! i wasn't exactly sure what mark was getting at until i really messed with the camera today. now i see what you guys mean. so when i set the speed at say 24 it may vary where as the audio will be essentially in real time all the time and not sync post. that's a pain in the ass and something i'm not sure i want to deal with.

another thing with this camera i'm kind of unclear on is the lense(s). the viewer will show through one lense while the shutter is actually behind another another. could somebody shed some light on that for me?

i also have a cheap super 8 camera. well, it's not actually in my posession, but the person who gave me the 16mm has a few super 8's. in general these are much easier to sync with audio, correct? aren't the super 8 cartridges specific speeds?

again, i'm extremely new to film and the equipment and whatnot. i am comfortable with pretty much anything digital but i'm not big on the look of dv, at least for what i'm after right now. so basically as of 4 days ago i knew absolutely nothing about film. thanks for the help.

 
Posted : 06/11/2007 2:19 am
(@markg)
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Super-8 may or may not have crystal sync either; also, they tend to shoot at 18fps rather than 24fps.

 
Posted : 06/11/2007 2:29 am
(@brian669)
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thanks. i'll keep my eye out for the crystal sync thing. i think the k100 is headed for ebay. my grandfather was a local pioneer in tv/radio and through the years accumulated a lot of movie and audio gear and gives me basically any of it i want. i pretty much furnished my studio by getting rid of a lot of the vintage audio equipment he had given me, keeping several select items. i was talking to him about the 16mm and he said he has other models, editing equip, 35mm camera's, and projectors. all i have to do is drive up to his house and get them. so most likely i'll be doing that in the following months and seeing what is there and what is usable to me. the rest i'll prob ebay and use it to finance the filming.

 
Posted : 06/11/2007 3:00 pm
(@certified-instigator)
Posts: 2951
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The major difference with Super 8 sound is the audio is recorded
on a mag stripe on the film itself. So even though the motor
isn't crystal sync, the audio and picture cannot drift apart.

I've tried many different methods, but one thing I have never
tried is transferring Super 8 sound cartridges to DV - with the
audio. It should work just fine. In theory at least. If I could get
a hold of a Super 8 Sound cartridge, I'd try it.

But again you must deal with the fact that the cameras are noisy.

I have shot three features on Super 8, but I own a crystal
controlled Super 8 camera and recorded audio to a Nagra. I
transferred both audio and picture to digital and then synced
them with no problems.

=============================================
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)

=============================================
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)

 
Posted : 06/11/2007 4:55 pm
(@brian669)
Posts: 7
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i actually won a bentley b3 for like 7 bucks earlier today on ebay. i'm going to go pick up 2 50ft kodak color negative carts right now from a local photo store. they're recently expired but i'm getting them both for 20 bucks and he'll develop them for 15 bucks so it's cheap enough to get a feel for the whole thing i guess. i just don't know what format the cartridges will end up in. i thought he mentioned recieving it on a dvd disc. i'll find out when i go down there. as long as i have a way to get them into my comp i'm fine!

as far as audio, from what i can tell it's very hard to find sound film for super 8 so i'm not concerning myself with that. i'll try my hand with a mobile dat unit and syncing in the comp. to me it's worth 50 bucks for the hands on experience using the equipment.

 
Posted : 06/11/2007 6:12 pm
(@markg)
Posts: 1214
Noble Member
 

I believe Kodak stopped making Super-8 sound film around ten years ago; I'm not sure whether anyone else still does.

 
Posted : 06/11/2007 6:18 pm
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