moreover, is EICAR a good school to study in? Im looking to study film production (not studies) in an undergraduate level in europe. from what i gather, EICAR's the only english-taught film school in continental europe. pls let me know what ur thoughts are about any points of my rambling above. it will be much appreciated. thank youu so much?:)??:)?
quote:
Originally posted by medusaseti
moreover, is EICAR a good school to study in? Im looking to study film production (not studies) in an undergraduate level in europe. from what i gather, EICAR's the only english-taught film school in continental europe. pls let me know what ur thoughts are about any points of my rambling above. it will be much appreciated. thank youu so much?:)??:)?
The key to finding any school that is "good" means first determining what it is YOU want/need to learn and then carefully and thoroughly researching schools to find one that WILL teach you those things. If you want to be a Screenwriter, then does that school have a great writing class? If you want to be a Cameraman, does that school have access to quality equipment and lighting workshops? If you want to be a Director, does it teach STORYTELLING in addition to the mechanics of what it takes to make a movie?
You might find 99 our of 100 people who will tell you that EICAR is a "great school!", but if it doesn't offer what YOU want/need, then it isn't great for you.
I'd also like to take a moment to suggest that the majority of what a person needs to know about making a movie can be learned on his own for far less cost than paying for an expensive "film school." Just by reading books and looking at other resources listed here:
http://realfilmcareer.com/forum/index.php?board=128.0 and
http://realfilmcareer.com/forum/index.php?board=129.0 and
http://realfilmcareer.com/forum/index.php?board=127.0 and
http://realfilmcareer.com/forum/index.php?board=86.0 and
http://realfilmcareer.com/forum/index.php?board=59.0
an aspiring "filmmaker" can build a strong foundation of knowledge that THEN can be more effectively used when he actually sits down to write a story/screenplay and/or pick up a camera.
Brian Dzyak
Cameraman/Author
IATSE Local 600, SOC
http://www.whatireallywanttodo.com
http://www.realfilmcareer.com
Brian Dzyak
Cameraman/Author
IATSE Local 600, SOC
http://www.whatireallywanttodo.com
http://www.realfilmcareer.com
When you're asking which school you want to go to, you must ask yourself which school you are comfortable in. IOW, are you comfortable in that atmosphere, with the students, and with the instructors? If no, then don't go there - I don't care how famous the school is, you won't be happy there and you won't learn much.
A related question, of course, is if you're comfortable in that city. IOW, are you comfortable living in Paris? If not, then go elsewhere.
quote:
Originally posted by bjdzyak
quote:
Originally posted by medusaseti
moreover, is EICAR a good school to study in? Im looking to study film production (not studies) in an undergraduate level in europe. from what i gather, EICAR's the only english-taught film school in continental europe. pls let me know what ur thoughts are about any points of my rambling above. it will be much appreciated. thank youu so much?:)??:)?The key to finding any school that is "good" means first determining what it is YOU want/need to learn and then carefully and thoroughly researching schools to find one that WILL teach you those things. If you want to be a Screenwriter, then does that school have a great writing class? If you want to be a Cameraman, does that school have access to quality equipment and lighting workshops? If you want to be a Director, does it teach STORYTELLING in addition to the mechanics of what it takes to make a movie?
You might find 99 our of 100 people who will tell you that EICAR is a "great school!", but if it doesn't offer what YOU want/need, then it isn't great for you.
I'd also like to take a moment to suggest that the majority of what a person needs to know about making a movie can be learned on his own for far less cost than paying for an expensive "film school." Just by reading books and looking at other resources listed here:
http://realfilmcareer.com/forum/index.php?board=128.0 and
http://realfilmcareer.com/forum/index.php?board=129.0 and
http://realfilmcareer.com/forum/index.php?board=127.0 and
http://realfilmcareer.com/forum/index.php?board=86.0 and
http://realfilmcareer.com/forum/index.php?board=59.0an aspiring "filmmaker" can build a strong foundation of knowledge that THEN can be more effectively used when he actually sits down to write a story/screenplay and/or pick up a camera.
currently, im leaning towards screenwriting and/or directing. as for going to film school, i agree with what u said abt the knowledge that can be obtained outside it. however i believe that by being in a school isn't entirely bad, but thats just my guess. the thing is, i now have the chance to go to pick a film school so why not, right? and i also have to begin expanding the network and connections in the industry.
as for EICAR, the only review I found was really bad and I kept wondering if it was really that bad. it was written years ago and I was hoping that maybe it's gotten better over the years.
quote:
Originally posted by Aspiring mogul
When you're asking which school you want to go to, you must ask yourself which school you are comfortable in. IOW, are you comfortable in that atmosphere, with the students, and with the instructors? If no, then don't go there - I don't care how famous the school is, you won't be happy there and you won't learn much.A related question, of course, is if you're comfortable in that city. IOW, are you comfortable living in Paris? If not, then go elsewhere.
hi, thanks for the replies!
that is what i'm trying to figure out. I don't want to be naive and all psyched just because of the cliche descriptions of Paris (city of lights etc), nor do I want to be lured by good web design of the school. From what I read around, people don't really recommend to study in Paris. So yea now I'm confused..?:)?
I'm not much of an 'expert' on the issue of film schools, but one thing does come to mind. In many cases, professional connections and acquaintances made in film school may help one get some lower-level work in the industry later. For most people in the motion picture industry in the US, getting started often presents the biggest challenge, since they rarely know anyone in the business. A good film school with faculty that is actually active in the industry may build some connections that might help with that initial foot in the door.
If, on the other hand, your primary goal is to complete an intensive and comprehensive study at a good school, so that you can return to Indonesia and begin your career there armed with solid expertise (and therefore ahead of most of your local competition), the possible industry connections may not be relevant that much. In such case, good choices would be those that provide broad curriculum, plenty of proper practical work and clear focus on what you choose to pursue.
As for that choice, while writing and directing may, in the beginning, seem fairly tightly connected, screenwriters seem to be very different personalities from directors, and their career paths are quite different.
I'll take myself as an example; in my prior 'life' (before coming to America), I was a musician (a conductor). While i DID write a few minor pieces in my musical career (TV jingles for commercials, a few short cues for an independent movie), I never considered myself a composer, and never had the drive, the emotional need, nor the creative flow of a composer. However, I DID write a lot of arrangements and orchestrations of other people's music, as well as conducted live performances in theatre and in concert. I believe I was very good at it, and both arranging/orchestration, as well as conducting, got my creative juices flowing. In filmmaking, I was never really driven to write my own screenplay; not even to come up with a story. I was always searching for someone else's ideas, stories and scripts. Adapting someone else's story into a screenplay was easier, but actually directing some script was where I got most creative excitement.
What I'm trying to say here is, you will have to think about yourself and see if you have that creative drive that makes you want to tell a story. This is the fundamental, most basic condition you must meet in order to consider becoming a (screen)writer. If, in addition to the imagination and desire to tell stories, you also have this powerful force that has you imagining moving pictures of your stories in your head, then you also have that directing bug. Think what it is that's drawing you towards the movies: storytelling or moving images in your head (or both).
I'll add this. Many young people are easily fascinated and excited by the film as an outcome of someone's effort, as well as the film making process itself. They watch Jason Bourne in action scenes and think "boy, I'd love to do this stuff", or they see 'Behind the Scenes' documentaries and get intrigued by the whole complex process that takes place during movie making.
I grew up in Belgrade (Serbia), where the local Universty of Fine Arts (College for Dramatic Arts) has created several quite gifted and successful filmmakers. Since the school is practically free for locals, hundreds apply every year, out of which, only several are admitted after a rigorous selection process. Many among those applicants ended up applying because they were fascinated and intrigued by the industry, the process, the celebrity of it all, and just wanted to become a part of it. Those usually washed out very early in the selection process.
If we look at this forum, particularly in the "Noob Section", we will find quite a few people who may fall into such a category. For them, the main question is: do you feel the strong drive to write/tell stories?
quote:
Originally posted by Vasic
I'll add this. Many young people are easily fascinated and excited by the film as an outcome of someone's effort, as well as the film making process itself. They watch Jason Bourne in action scenes and think "boy, I'd love to do this stuff", or they see 'Behind the Scenes' documentaries and get intrigued by the whole complex process that takes place during movie making.I grew up in Belgrade (Serbia), where the local Universty of Fine Arts (College for Dramatic Arts) has created several quite gifted and successful filmmakers. Since the school is practically free for locals, hundreds apply every year, out of which, only several are admitted after a rigorous selection process. Many among those applicants ended up applying because they were fascinated and intrigued by the industry, the process, the celebrity of it all, and just wanted to become a part of it. Those usually washed out very early in the selection process.
If we look at this forum, particularly in the "Noob Section", we will find quite a few people who may fall into such a category. For them, the main question is: do you feel the strong drive to write/tell stories?
I agree wholeheartedly on this one. I've seen people who want to run away and join the circus, not realizing how hard the work is.
quote:
Originally posted by Aspiring mogulI agree wholeheartedly on this one. I've seen people who want to run away and join the circus, not realizing how hard the work is.
I think that more importantly, it's harder work just getting there! For some reason, aspiring "filmmakers" think that all they have to do is go to a "Film school" to learn "how to make a movie" then they'll graduate and POOF! they'll be making movies for a living. It's anything but.
A) nobody gives a sh** if you have a film degree or not no matter where it's from. Your degree piled up with everyone else's film degrees make fine kindling for a bonfire, but none of it will ever get anyone a job.
B) the POINT of a "film school" is to teach you things you don't know already about 1) the "how to" make a movie stuff/logistics and 2) the industry so that you know HOW TO APPLY that knowledge in the real world so that you can actually use it and earn a living.
The unfortunate facts are that A) most schools are mainly selling the dream. They want hopeful kids to believe that filmschool IS the key to success. It's not. And B) most schools do NOT teach anything about reality. Sure, many have kids watch movies and write papers about the art. Sure, many have some gear (cameras, lights, editing)and let kids make some movies, theoretically giving some practical experience.
But the brutal fact is that school is VERY different than reality. MOST of what an aspiring professional needs to know can be learned outside of the formal school environment for far less cost. School can offer additional benefits, but as long as the student is aware of what a school will and will not do for his career, then that will make the evaluation process for choosing a school that much more beneficial in the long run.
Brian Dzyak
Cameraman/Author
IATSE Local 600, SOC
http://www.whatireallywanttodo.com
http://www.realfilmcareer.com
Brian Dzyak
Cameraman/Author
IATSE Local 600, SOC
http://www.whatireallywanttodo.com
http://www.realfilmcareer.com
True, although, a proper, 3-year, traditional undergraduate study will produce a very complete and well-educated filmmaker. Again, this has nothing to do with his/her ability or chances to find him/herself a job in the industry. However, once he/she does begin finding jobs, the skill set he/she has acquired in that film school will help very much.
The point is, much like schooling in any other art form (graphic design, painting, sculpture, music), you could learn most (if not everyithing) you get at traditional schooling by yourself, by rigorously reading, researching, studying and practicing (i.e. writing stories or scripts; practicing a musical instrument or writing orchestration; or painting, or sculpting, etc). The rigorous discipline required to match the efficiency and completeness of traditional schooling is rather difficult to achieve, though.
My dad used to say about good schools/universities that what they do is take a funnel, stick it into your brain and funnel knowledge into it at a fast pace. As long as you are moderately applying yourself to the programme of study, you can't help but learn.
In the Soviet-era communist world (and I'll include my old place, Yugoslavia, in there, even though we were far more liberal and West-leaning than the Soviet bloc), when you said film school, that could only mean a four-year undergraduate degree programme of study that was demanding, serious, challenging and extremely complete. There were no accelerated six-week courses, night classes, filmmaking bootcamps or other stuff of questionable value. If you wanted to learn filmmaking, getting a complete college degree was your only choice, and it was a pretty good one. The situation hasn't changed much over there, although there are several universities offering degree programmes, but still no independent short courses or workshops. In other words, whichever filmschool you were to choose back home, you'd get a college degree out of it, together with a wealth and breadth of knowledge that prepares you fairly well for whatever you choose to pursue.
In America, I have noticed there plenty filmmaking programmes of all sorts, and it is almost impossible to figure out which ones will just take your money and which ones will actually give you your money's worth. Still, I'm rather convinced that a reputable university and a full 3- or 4-year undergraduate degree programme has a good chance of funneling a lot of valuable filmmaking knowledge into a young student's brain.
I would advise most young people to go to university, not just because they need to learn about a certain subject matter, but also because they have to go through a learning process. But that's just me.
quote:
Originally posted by Aspiring mogul
I would advise most young people to go to university, not just because they need to learn about a certain subject matter, but also because they have to go through a learning process. But that's just me.
I agree. I would advise ANYONE who wants to be in the professional movie business to go to a University and major in ANYTHING else but film. By all means, take film production courses concentrating in whatever aspect is your thing, but concentrating mostly on film (studies or production) is a waste of time and money.
Instead, major in something like Business and Finance with a heavy load of Literature, History, Art History, Political Science, Sociology, COMMUNICATIONS!!!! A "filmmaker" must have something to write or make a movie ABOUT so studying mostly film or "how to make a movie" won't give you the background in "life" to give you something to write about. As someone said recently, it should be called "Storytelling School," not "filmschool."
And I emphasize COMMUNICATIONS as interpersonal communication skills are VITAL to getting work and keeping it and doing your job (no matter what it is) effectively. Making a movie is all about communicating ideas and "orders" to others so that the machine can work efficiently toward the same goal. Not everyone is born with those skills so anything one can do to develop along those lines will go very far in every aspect of a career.
Brian Dzyak
Cameraman/Author
IATSE Local 600, SOC
http://www.whatireallywanttodo.com
http://www.realfilmcareer.com
Brian Dzyak
Cameraman/Author
IATSE Local 600, SOC
http://www.whatireallywanttodo.com
http://www.realfilmcareer.com
I don't know, Brian, about your advice... I'm not sure what specific university are you describing, but I don't think ANY respectable university with a good film programme will only teach film and nothing else. The graduates would be intellectual cripples with just a bunch of very narrowly defined skills.
The programme I'm familiar with (and which is rather similar to university programmes in the region) was quite broad and effective. Here is the curriculum (re-copied from a thread from some six months ago):
Film directing (6 semesters)
TV directing (2 semesters)
Documentary film (2 semesters)
Fundamentals of screenwriting for Film and TV (2 semesters)
History of Film (4 semesters)
History of world drama and theatre (2 semesters)
Visual aesthetics (2 semesters)
Film editing (4 semesters)
Cinematography (4 semesters)
Technology of film and TV (5 semesters)
Art history (2 semesters)
Foreign language (4 semesters)
Method acting for screen (2 semesters)
Basic audio recording and sound design for film and TV (1 semester)
Psychology (4 semesters)
Music for screen (2 semesters)
Screenwriting for short film (1 semester)
Screenwriting for short form in other media (1 semester)
Film theory (2 semesters)
Business of TV and film (2 semesters)
Technology of TV (1 semester)
Aesthetics (2 semesters)
Basics of music notation (1 semester)
Introduction to musical instruments (1 semester)
Technology of photographic, film and digital image (2 semesters)
Business communication (2 semesters)
Plenty of psychology, communication, business, in addition to the core stuff, which is quite broad. And this is only half-decent school in a formerly communist country. Incidentally, the school is essentially still free for the locals (if you can get in, that is). You know, how the education is supposed to be free for all children? Well, in most places in Europe, they take it to mean including college...
