Greetings,
I am an independent producer with a film project that has some interesting attachments, but in the process of trying to find a more experienced producer to collaborate with, I met this producer in my area who had done a couple of good films and he would certainly be an asset to this project.
He absolutely LOVED the script and was quite impressed with the attachments we already acquired. He even offered that he knew a private investor with deep pockets and that he could help in other ways as well - such as casting and other production requirements. After some further discussions, we set up a meeting to really talk about the project and firm up some details. Everything was fantastic and we were going to move forward. Or so I thought.
I then set up a following meeting a few weeks later at a restaurant and was stood up. I was furious, but was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt - so when I called him and he apologized, I let it slide. We then arrange a new time to meet and then the day of the meeting, I get an email - not a phone call that a family member had died on his wife's side, but to call him in a few days. No problem at all.
I call him a week and half later to set up a following meeting and he says that he will call me back. A week goes by and he doesn't. I try again and he says he will call me back. Never does. This goes on for a little while longer and he finally gives me a few minutes on the phone - where I offer him the opportunity to tell me if he is passing or not on the project. He says he is still interested in the project and we arrange another meeting - where I get stood up again, despite his claims that he left me phone messages stating that he couldn't make it. He absolutely did not leave me any messages.
Now obviously I am not going to do business with this person - regardless if he called me tomorrow and started showing up at meetings now, but I feel absolutely compelled to tell him how unprofessional I think he is. If you want to pass on a project or can't deliver on the things you claimed - then tell me and allow me to move on instead of having me wondering what is going on. I do have other people to answer to and being stood up two times has made me livid.
Now let me clarify - I realize that this business is full of these kinds of situations and people who bullshit. But I feel the need to express to him why I feel this he is unprofessional. I don't mean calling him names or anything like that, but simply in a professonal manner - convey to him why I feel he is unprofessional. That's it. I am certainly not burning any bridges with this guy.
I am curious what people here think about this. Would you do the same? Have you had similar experiences? I would love to hear about them and what you did.
Thank You.
Sadly the industry is full of these types of people. I'd just let it go and move on. There doesn't seem much to be gained by venting at him and it's better not to piss anyone off unnecessarily (even if they deserve it).
These type of people tend to also pop out of the woodwork again in the future, behaving as if nothing has happened. If that happens, that's a good point to remind them that the experience was less than rosey last time so this time it will be a cold day in hell...
Ben.
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Benjamin Craig
Editor-in-Chief, filmmaking.net
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Benjamin Craig
Editor-in-Chief, filmmaking.net
No good can come of telling him he's unprofessional. It's unlikely he'll change and it sounds like he's already had some success so he certainly won't see he need to change. Perhaps they are going through a rough patch and you will appear to be kicking them when they are down. He may take offense no matter how nicely you put it and have friends and gossip and his network may cause you problems in the future... "Oh, you're that guy".
Let it go, lesson learned.
RJSchwarz
San Diego, CA
RJSchwarz
Thanks for the great advice. I guess what makes me most angry and what doesn't make sense to me is the fact that I gave the guy the opportunity to say he is passing on the project or too busy right now to take on the project, but he would say that he wants to make the film - only to have the same problem happen all over again.
Obviously we can't determine what his intentions are, but what could he possibly gain from stringing me along and claiming that he is interested in a project when he is really isn't based on his actions. Is it just a matter of him being a jackass and nothing more than that? I gave him an out if he felt he couldn't deliver. Why keep it going?
It's not like this wasn't a real project. If he actually came through on his end, it would only benefit him and everyone else involved.
quote:
but what could he possibly gain from stringing me along and claiming that he is interested in a project when he is really isn't based on his actions.
As a producer myself, I can think of a dozen reasons.
Setting up a meeting and then not showing up is really unprofessional
and I can't think of a single good reason for doing that. But
nothing else you mention here seems unprofessional to me. I can
think of several reasons why I have (as you put it) strung a
writer along - though I would use those words - who has a script
I absolutely LOVE with excellent attachments. I understand you
want a final "yes" or "no" and you want it as soon as possible
, but that might not be a realistic expectation.
For many different reasons.
If you feel that expressing to him your view will make you feel
better, then do it. I see no good coming of it - he won't change
and it won't make him respect you more. But it might make you
feel better.
I wouldn't do it. And you have made it very clear that no matter
what, you won't do business with him. So that leads me to a
question to you, adam: why do you feel the need to tell him how
unprofessional you think he is?
=============================================
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)
=============================================
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)
Certified Instigator,
I am not the writer of this project, but the producer who is developing the project and putting it together. I just needed to collaborate with another producer who has more experience than I do in certain areas.
Having said that, I wasn't looking for a yes or no answer specifically - but you have to understand that we did have the one meeting where he was spewing all these details and I was impressed with what he said he could do for the project. But we needed to have a follow up meeting to confirm some details as I have other people to answer to.
So you don't think that it's unprofessional that he says he will call me back in 10 minutes but a week goes by? I call again and the same thing happens? Keep in mind, when he was reading the script originally - he was calling me and emailing me all the time to express how much he loved the project. He provided detailed script notes, cast ideas and other information that clearly showed this guy was willing to do some work to get this film made.
You say you are a producer - so I am curious as to what these potential reasons are for telling the person on the phone when they are lucky to catch you, that you absolutely want to make this movie...but when they want to set up meetings with you, you are nowhere to be found and don't return phone calls.
Why do I want to tell him he is unprofessional? I don't know - maybe waiting twice in a restaurant for him made me feel like an ass. I feel disrespected in the sense that he somehow feels that his time is more valuable than mine. I guess in a way I want an explanation. I am just curious that way - I want to know things and have closure. Tell me why you wasted my time sort of thing. I am not going to do it though, but I would still like to hear your valid reasons for why what he did (minus the not showing up) was acceptable.
It sounds like you have plenty reason to be mad, but there really is no upside to telling him. If he acts this way, he will probably continue to act that way throughout the project so you probably don't want to deal with him. If he does contact you might suggest that your communications styles don't work and you don't think you can continue. He might provide rationals for the behavior that satisfy you, he might shrug and move on. Chances are he's done this to others and had his share of being told off.
You might also wonder what this guys involvement in other projects were. The girlfriend fo teh Executive Producer can get a Producers credit on a movie on some situations. A lot of people in Hollywood know how to talk big. So the question is do you know his *name* or simply the name of projects he's been on.
RJSchwarz
San Diego, CA
RJSchwarz
quote:
So you don't think that it's unprofessional that he says he will call me back in 10 minutes but a week goes by? I call again and the same thing happens?
Not necessarily. Annoying for you - I see that. But I have been in
similar situations often. I try my best to get back to everyone in
a timely manner - but I don't always succeed.
quote:
You say you are a producer - so I am curious as to what these potential reasons are for telling the person on the phone when they are lucky to catch you, that you absolutely want to make this movie...but when they want to set up meetings with you, you are nowhere to be found and don't return phone calls.
As I said, I think setting up meetings and not showing is unprofessional.
Telling someone they are lucky to catch me: not unprofessional in
my opinion. I'm a busy guy. Producing isn't the only thing I do and
I don't have secretaries or assistants to take calls and messages.
Maybe he's in the same position.
Saying that I absolutely want to make the movie: not unprofessional
in my opinion. Here's one possible scenario - the money guy, the
guy with deep pockets may have several producers wanting his money.
Taking this producer at his word - that he really does like your
script and attachments and wants to make the movie - maybe the
deep pocket guy is taking a long time to respond to him.
I know I've had that happen to me. I understand that you would like
updates or a firm yes or no, but sometimes schedules of several
people don't mesh so it's impossible to get those updates out in
the timeframe you would like. I've had the financiers promise me
they would get back to me in a few days and then not do it. I either
don't have time to contact the other producer or I wait, hoping the
financier calls me the next day.
I understand that it makes the other person nervous - I'm nervous too.
I sometimes have several projects working through the system. Each
writer wants to be kept up to date on the progress - each producer
want to know what's going on. I love each of the scripts, I want to
make all of them - I can't. And each project has it's own time frame
. One may be on the fast track and taking up all my time while another
one is slowly working it's way through the maze of financing. I don't
have time to keep each writer up to date.
quote:
Why do I want to tell him he is unprofessional? I don't know - maybe waiting twice in a restaurant for him made me feel like an ass. I feel disrespected in the sense that he somehow feels that his time is more valuable than mine. I guess in a way I want an explanation. I am just curious that way - I want to know things and have closure.
Then get your closure. If that's important to you I think you should
call the guy up and tell him how you feel. You would never do business
with him again so you will lose nothing and you will feel better. Just
don't hope to get an explanation from him - I seriously doubt he'll
give you one.
quote:
I would still like to hear your valid reasons for why what he did (minus the not showing up) was acceptable.
I can't give you valid reasons why he did what he did. That's a little
unreasonable.
Of course if the guy is just a jerk, telling him how upset you are
won't matter. As rj said, he'll still keep being a jerk. If he's legit
and really busy you might be burning a good contact. I can tell you
if I got a call telling me how unprofessional I was, I wouldn't offer
an explanation. I would listen (if it was done politely as you say
you will do it) and then wish you luck, hang up the phone and
move on to my next project.
If this guy called on Wednesday and said - with no apology
or explanation for his behavior - that the deep pocket guy
had agreed on the budget, that the money would be in an
account on December 17, you could start pre-production
on January 7 and that he would be co-producer...
Would you tell him no thanks?
If you would, then if I were you I'd call him first thing Monday and
tell him exactly how you feel. It will make you feel much better
and you'll have that closure.
Keep up informed, okay? I'm curious how it works out.
=============================================
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)
=============================================
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)
Adam Ace,
Don't spend another minute on this person...it'll be another minute you can't get back. The greatest revenge is success for your film. Move forward and let the film's success be your letter to that person.
We've all had similar experiences with very unprofessional people and there will be many more to come. Find professional people to work with and stick with them. No need to go anywhere else once you can find those few needles in the haystack.
Everybody knows everybody. Assume that and make sure you don't piss off the wrong person. Who knows the reasons for jerking you around...but don't waste more time. If they call back wanting to work with you, tell them you found another producer...and you have to run to a lunch meeting...but you'll keep them in mind on your next project.
I absolutely agree with certified instigator.
people in our business are usually very busy and have their heads full of things important and unimportant ones.
some of the behaviour that guy showed is certainly not the most professional way but most of the producers,supes etc. work on more than one show at a time and get sometimes hundreds or thousands of emails a day and uncounted phonecalls.
the more experienced and the more known they are the harder it is to keep in touch with them and actually for them to get back to you.
there are of course also those ones that promise "to make you a star" without even thinking about you once the meeting is over....but you should quickly learn to
recognize them...
one thing you should be in this job is persistant. not annoying but it can't hurt to remind the people that you and your project are around.
besides you should try to get more than just one person to be interest to work with you.
and at the end of the day if someone else started to work with you and that guy lost his opportunity on that show with you he might be a bit more motivated the next time....
it is unfortunate but money and the ones with the pockets presumably deep enough are rare things if you aren't one of the big boys.
telling the guy how pissed off you are might actually hurt you a lot more than you think.
if his intentions were sincere and he just couldn't get around you will piss him off.
besides one thing that is for sure is that the moviebiz is a small world. and you almost certainly will run into each other again if you both remain in the game. and word of mouth travels
as fast as anywhere else.you might be finding future investors jumping off because they happen to be friends with your producer...you get the picture I guess
