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HD or not?

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(@moonmin-troll)
Posts: 65
Estimable Member
Topic starter
 

Hi,

I am a bit confused about whether its worth getting a HD camera yet or not. Im interested in the Canon HV20 as it can record in 24p however from my research this not a straight forward issue. Can anyone help with the following questions?

1. Will i get better quality if the footage is shown on a standard tv?
2. If i burn to a normal dvd is it still hd quality?
3. Can Vegas handle 24p footage?
4. What problems can there be editing HD footage?

Any help would be most appreciated as if its better to wait a year or so, ill save my money and by something cheaper for now as im only just getting started and it will take me 6 months or so to get to grips with the basics.

Thanks in advance,

Matt

 
Posted : 08/11/2007 1:25 pm
(@rjschwarz)
Posts: 1814
Noble Member
 

(1) I'm not sure, but both Arrested Development and The Office were/are filmed in HD and Arrested Development was before HD channels were around so I have to assume they thought there was some kind of improvement. Then again perhaps they knew they were saving so much by not shooting film that they got the absolute best they could.

(2) I'm curious about this answer myself. i don't know.

(3) Vegas 6 appears able to handle HD. I 30 second search is all it takes to find that sort of thing out.
http://videoediting.digitalmedianet.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=34234

The answer to (4), well as far as I know most editing software can't handle HD. The programs that do handle it as if it was just another format and should clearly advertise that they are HD.

RJSchwarz
San Diego, CA

RJSchwarz

 
Posted : 08/11/2007 2:59 pm
(@markg)
Posts: 1214
Noble Member
 

1. Maybe. Depends on how good the down-conversion to SD video is.
2. Not unless you burn it in an HD DVD format that will only play on HD DVD players. I believe you can fit about 20 minutes of HD video onto a standard DVD in that format.
3. Don't know.
4. You'll need more processing power, more memory and probably more disk space; even programs which edit HDV natively tend to use their own codec for rendered effects, and that will need a much higher bit-rate.

Personally pretty much everyone I know making really low-budget movies is shooting HDV rather than DV these days.

 
Posted : 08/11/2007 4:23 pm
(@joe999)
Posts: 55
Trusted Member
 

quote:


Originally posted by moonmin troll

1. Will i get better quality if the footage is shown on a standard tv? Not unless the TV is HD
2. If i burn to a normal dvd is it still hd quality? No. Unless you just burn a HD data file. If you author a DVD disc for playing in a DVD player it will downcovert during the authoring to SD (DVD)
3. Can Vegas handle 24p footage? Yes, easily. I have a Canon XH-A1 and shoot HD (1920x1080) and Vegas easily edits the HD footage, far far better than Adobe Premiere or Avid. I am sticking with Vegas, it is so impressive for HD editing, I found Adobe majorly sucked, turtle crawl. Vegas was smooth.
4. What problems can there be editing HD footage?Rendering times are large. But the new Vegas 8 Pro allows creating one's own rendering farm, very cool.


 
Posted : 14/11/2007 10:46 pm
(@astralronin)
Posts: 32
Eminent Member
 

quote:


Originally posted by Joe999

quote:


Originally posted by moonmin troll

1. Will i get better quality if the footage is shown on a standard tv? Not unless the TV is HD



I'm not an expert on this, but I don't think this is true. If it were, why is it that movies shot in HD (say the last two Star Wars features, Zodiac, Sin City, etc.) look so better on standard definition televisions than films shot on video (28 days later, Inland Empire). And logically, you could ask the same question about movies shot on film. I think HD can offer better color contrast and picture reproduction overall than SD which would translate to SD presentation, but that also depends on the quality of the camera being used.

http://www.youtube.com/nairnet

http://www.youtube.com/nairnet

 
Posted : 15/11/2007 7:36 pm
(@wordslinger)
Posts: 108
Estimable Member
 

Of course a movie shot on HDV, or HD, will look better on a standard tv than a movie shot on plain minidv. The camera's themselves are designed to capture a superior picture... they have to in order to get an HD image woth bothering with. You won't get 'hi-def' quality, but it will look better than a video shot on plain old minidv. That's my take on things, anyway.

'In the life that man creates for himself, he too, creates his demise... and his legacy.'

'In the life that man creates for himself, he too, creates his demise... and his legacy.'

 
Posted : 15/11/2007 10:20 pm
(@markg)
Posts: 1214
Noble Member
 

One issue is that even consumer HD will typically give you a 1440x1080 frame with 720x540 color samples. DV records 720x480 (we'll ignore PAL for now) with 180x480 color samples.

So if you downconvert HD to uncompressed SD, you get 720x480 pixels with 720x480 color samples. Since you also have four HD luminance pixels per SD pixel, you can also average them to get 10 bits of luminance data per pixel rather than 8 bits. That means you have more color detail and more luminance detail than shooting DV (potentially even more than shooting Digibeta, though the optics on a Digibeta camera are likely to be better).

That's somewhat counteracted by the MPEG-2 compression that HDV uses, which throws away detail that you can't see, but you're still likely to get a better picture than DV if you have decent downconversion software.

 
Posted : 16/11/2007 12:13 am
(@digitalblade)
Posts: 16
Active Member
 

1. Will i get better quality if the footage is shown on a standard tv?
yes
HD cameras usually have better ccds and run on higher resolution. if the compression doesn't kill that off.
therefor you should try to shoot HD without compression (expensive rig needed) or at least with as high quality as possible
downconverting HD to pal/ntsc will usually give you better quality than just native pal/ntsc since you have more image information.

2. If i burn to a normal dvd is it still hd quality?
no
dvd standards require sd pal/ntsc resolutions
you would have to burn a blueray/hddvd to keep hd

3. Can Vegas handle 24p footage?
check the features provided by the vendor

4. What problems can there be editing HD footage?
you need more hard drive space and for real time editing faster drives and equipment.
you also need HD cards like aja,decklink,blackmagic if you do full blown HD realtime
you might want to get an HD monitor/tv for playback

check the resolutions the camera is actually natively doing!!
many claim to be HD but they are in fact not.
full HD is 1920x1080
best videosampling would be 4:4:4 10 or 12 bit log
consumer/prosumer cams typically run on 4:2:2 8 bit

obviously it all goes down to what budget you have....

 
Posted : 15/01/2008 2:29 pm
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