Isn't this where we all kind of started? Unless someone is a prodigy or has a shitload of money that is. With a cheap camera I personally think the worst thing to do is put it on a tripod. Unless you are doing an extreme closeup it will just make it look really stiff. The problem then is that some cheap cameras tend to pick up every little shake in your hand and amplify it by 10. Your going to have to shoot some stuff and see what it looks like, it will give you a better idea of what you need to do. And about the closeups, with a cheap camera i can never make it look very good, its too surreal looking.

And were an epitaph to be my story
I'd have a short one ready for my own.
I would have written of me on my stone:
I had a lover's quarrel with the world.
Robert Frost (1874-1963

swordofdoom, i am planning to build my own steadycam device so the shakey shots should be done away with.
plus, if needed, i will use image stabiliser on-board the camera.

"Video's a poor excuse, I know. But it helps me remember... and I need to remember... Sometimes there's so much beauty in the world I feel like I can't take it, like my heart's going to cave in. "

Then whats the dealio? Keep the camera moving and you'll be fine. Your worst enemy is shaky shots. People can't tell you what to do to make your film look good, develop your own style.

And were an epitaph to be my story
I'd have a short one ready for my own.
I would have written of me on my stone:
I had a lover's quarrel with the world.
Robert Frost (1874-1963

quote:

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Originally posted by oleg
has anyone on these forums ever had the experience of shooting a film using a nothing-special consumer camera?

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As sword said, everyone starts this way. I was 16 when I started shooting film with a nothing special camera. Frankly, a good movie doesn't come from top of the line equipment. A good movie comes from a good script and good actors.

My suggestion is to put all your attention into those two aspects.

Two more, very simple tips:
1 - if you can, use an external mic. It doesn't need to be a top of the line mic, it just needs to be as close to the actors as you can get it. Attach it to a painters pole with a rubberband if you have to.
2 - if you can use what's called a "hair light" or "back light". This can be as simple as a small "scoop light" - one of those silver clamp-on work lights. Place it behind the actor to throw light on the back of their heads. This separates them from the background and can really make a difference in the way the shoot looks.

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The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)

What kind of an external mike? There is no in-scene dialogue in my short so is an external mike still important?
Oh, and I tried using my computer microphone, attached it to my camera and tried using that for a little experiment to check out sound difference. The computer microphone had more BG noise than the on-board camera!
Is this b/c it's a dodgy computer microphone?

"Video's a poor excuse, I know. But it helps me remember... and I need to remember... Sometimes there's so much beauty in the world I feel like I can't take it, like my heart's going to cave in. "

What you're looking for is a good shotgun mic. That in itself is a generic term that means any long barreled mic. You want a good condenser (externally powered) mic with a ?lobar? pick up pattern to put on your boom pole. Lobar pick up means the mic focuses its audio pick up to a narrow area. This is why you want to use a boom pole to get the mic as close the the actor as possible - you?ll get clean dialogue tracks with less ambient noise.

There are three main suppliers of shotgun mics:
?url? http://www.sennheiserusa.com/newsite/?/url?
Sennheiser is the mic most used by professional sound recordists. They are expensive and worth it. Check out the ME-66 and the ME-67.
?url? http://www.audio-technica.com/?/url?
Audio-Technica makes great mic?s and they?re cheaper. Check out the AT835b.
?url? http://www.azdencorp.com/?/url?
I?ve never used Azden mic?s. They?re inexpensive but I?ve don?t hear too many good things about them.

But if you can't afford that, then use the on-camera mic. Just don't wait. Each movie you make will get better. I know you want your first one to be THE BEST it can be, but you will keep getting better. So make this first one with the equipment you have. Make three or four or ten or fifteen with the equipment you have right now. As you get better, you can add better equipment.

quote:

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With a cheap camera I personally think the worst thing to do is put it on a tripod.

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Not to step on anyones toes but a tripod woulnd be a bad investment. For what you'd spend on making a steadycam device, you could buy a cheap tripod. It's true that tripods can make your movie look stiff but you can still alter the way you use it. If you only extend one leg, you can use it as a monopod. This lets you keep your mobility and cuts down on the shaky shots. Don't worry about the type of camera you have. If it's what you can afford, use it.

"Try not. Do, or do not. There is no try." - Yoda

Don't worry. The tripod isn't a problem, I have one anyway.
certified instigator, I stated in my post that there is NO in-scene dialogue in my short. So please answer my question: therefore, is an external mike still important?

"Video's a poor excuse, I know. But it helps me remember... and I need to remember... Sometimes there's so much beauty in the world I feel like I can't take it, like my heart's going to cave in. "

Im not certified...but if there is no dialog for the mic to pic up. No, not for this film your doing, but odds are your going to need one eventually. My first film was on a cheap consumer camcorder too...I just kept the camera moving as best I could. I tripod was not a great idea I found, but that monopod idea might, havnt tried that one.

no dialgue as in silent film? then no need for a mic. If you have voice over and you still want to save money then just record the person doing the voice over on teh camcorder...keep in mind you will still not have teh good quality you would recording on an external mic but it should still work.

as for the tripod thing...i dont see why putting a consumer camera on a tripod is such a bad thing. Just as long as you dont shoot the entire movie on a tripod and keep in long shots...then again it depends on what type of mood you are trying to set. Stanley Kubrick and P.T. Anderson using long shots all the time and they are very succesful with it. You just have to know how to use it right and if you edit it correctlty with enough movement then it shouldnt look to stiff.

i used a monopod for the first time on my last short and i liked teh results. It can be very sturdy (like a tripod) or if you hold is a little looser you can get the "24" or Law and Order look, which is a constantly barely moving camera...you can also use as a poor man steadycam with some adjustments ?:)?

"Anyone who has ever been privileged to direct a film also knows that, although it can be like trying to write 'War and Peace' in a bumper car in an amusement park, when you finally get it right, there are not many joys in life that can equal the feeling." - Stanley Kubrick

There is NO dialogue, but it ISN'T a silent film (ie. totally muted). There is still background sounds/environmental sounds/whatever you call it. Ambience.
So should I just stick with the in-camera microphone for this one then?

"Video's a poor excuse, I know. But it helps me remember... and I need to remember... Sometimes there's so much beauty in the world I feel like I can't take it, like my heart's going to cave in. "

yes. stick with the in camera mic. No point in wasting your money...however if you plan on keeping making movies i highly suggest you get your hands on one anyway.

"Anyone who has ever been privileged to direct a film also knows that, although it can be like trying to write 'War and Peace' in a bumper car in an amusement park, when you finally get it right, there are not many joys in life that can equal the feeling." - Stanley Kubrick