"I am very passionate about making movies and I am looking for a serious MFA degree which I can use in the film business."

Stop right there. What job is it that you hope to have in the professional film industry and what makes you believe that ANY degree will help you achieve it?

You mention directing. If that's your goal, you need to understand that NOBODY will care if you have a degree or not. The only time a school seems to matter is if you come from a school which has a lot of working alumni in the business, such as USC. Otherwise,having a job as a Director is about the movies you make and who sees them. You'll never get hired because you have an MFA. You'll get hired if you are viewed as talented AND if those with the money feel that the projects you make will earn them more money that is spent making them.

Brian Dzyak
Cameraman/Author
IATSE Local 600, SOC
http://www.whatireallywanttodo.com
http://www.realfilmcareer.com

quote:

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Originally posted by Pleasexplain
-They are both for profit institutions (which I got the sense was a bad thing as all they care about when it comes to their students is money.)

-I also found a ton of strong opinions concerning both schools (Mainly negative, but there were a few positive ones thrown in.) The sense I got was that NYFA was slightly more "legit" (as in people had more positive things to say about the learning experience there than at AAU.)

-They both seem to have a 100% acceptance rate which seems a little fishy.

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Bingo! That accept anyone who is willing to pay.

From my experience both are "legit" - meaning they
will do exactly what they say they will do. If you feel
you need to be in a class and pay a lot of money to
work on student films then either of these schools
will work out for you.

Frankly, you would be better off spending that money
on making a few of your own movies and volunteering
on low and no budget independent features. As Brian
said, no one will care if you have a degree. And everyone
in the industry know the reputation of The Academy
of Art University and the New York Film Academy. They
know that they accept anyone willing to pay.

Well, my opinion certainly won't carry nearly as much weight at Brian's or CI's (experienced professionals in the industry), bukt I'll give it nonetheless.

Film is in many ways similar to any other form of art: many aspects of it are difficult, if not impossible, to teach (you're either gifted or you aren't). If you don't have the talent for music, a Music Academy won't ever make you a good composer (or pianist, or conductor). Not even Juilliard, or Tchaikovsky schools.

However, if we assume a person does have the talent, a good, comprehensive film school will very quickly and effectively arm such person with knowledge to pursue the art of making films. I am a strong believer in higher learning and its value. A good film school (such as the USC, which Brian mentioned, or the NYU over on th East Coast) will have a fairly broad curriculum of required courses for a proper film-related degree, which will most certainly create a well-educated, well-rounded filmmaker. Such curriculum will also incorporate plenty of practical work, as well as exposure to a variety of techniques, technological tools, as well as genres (16mm, 35mm, digital, B/W, Colour, multi-cam; documentary, drama, comedy, fantasy, action, etc). Depending on the track (producing, directing, acting, screenwriting, camera, editing, etc), proper film school will also teach history of film, art, music, basic screenwriting, basic editing, basic cinematography, basic audio engineering, etc. The amount of knowledge a student will acquire within three to four years of such proper school will likely be comparable to many years (possibly decades) of self-learning and practical experience on other sets.

There is only one problem that many young people have with this: expectations. Vast majority of aspiring filmmakers consider entering a film school expecting to be fully qualified professionals once they're done, ready to be hired by a studio to direct (or produce, or write, or shoot, or edit, whichever the case may be) a feature film. The perception is that an actual diploma from a film school (especially a "reputable" one) unlocks magic Hollywood doors. As Brian had said, this is most definitely not so. The usefulness of that diploma ends on the bedroom wall where it will end up hanging. Having said that, though, I have no doubt that the wealth of knowledge acquired in the film school is invaluable and once this person finds his (her) way into the industry (usually, starting from the bottom, as a PA or something similar), with plenty of luck, this knowledge will get recognised.

Volunteering on other people's productions is the most common way of building one's demo reel (as well as connections). This is the same, whether one does go to a film school or not. I'm sure, though, with the knowledge acquired in a good school, the quality of one's contribution to such productions will be significantly higher out of the gate. This can only help build that career.

As far as the two schools mentioned are concerned, all I can say is that they tend to spend more than half of all of their revenue on advertising. In other words, half of your tuition money will NOT go on professors, teaching assistants or equipment necessary for practical work, but on posters for the subway. I'm rather skeptical of the value of such a programme.

Thanks so much for all of the advice everyone. I think what I'm looking for is quality instructors who care about passing knowledge on to their students...which I may or may not find in the schools I mention. Schools that put money into recruitment don't seem like they would care all that much about students who are already attending the school.

I've thought about it a lot, and for me film school is worth the time and the money. I realize a degree does not equal a job and that's ok...

Maybe I didn't make this clear in the OP, and sorry if it was confusing, but I was wondering if anyone had specific examples from either of the mentioned schools about professors or administrators not giving real constructive feedback on work. If I go to film school, I want to learn things, which I realize I could do on set...But in film school I can make the learning suit my needs and learn quickly and efficiently...without worrying about finding work (which I have tried doing in the Boston area and frankly it was pretty discouraging.) Most importantly tho, going to film school would be fun for me. So again I realize there are positives and negatives about film school, and for me the positives outweigh the negatives. But does anyone have advice specifically about the two schools I mentioned.

For example:

-Are graduates competent film makers?

-Are good connections made at the schools?

-Are the classes enjoyable and informative, or is it busy work (as I saw many vague allusions to in reviews for AAU)?

Again sorry to start a debate on the validity of film school, and thanks for all the responses everyone!!

To be honest when it comes to working in the film industry (at least on the East coast) the only work I can find is the work I make for myself...The movies I write, direct, and edit. When I have tried to find work, I either never hear back from the person or groups making a film, or hear that there's nothing I can do to help. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong places (my undergrad recruitment office, friends of my parents who are involved in the film business, all over the internet) or maybe my films don't look professional enough/serious enough. Or maybe I just don't have enough talent, I honestly don't know. What I do know is I love film making and everything I know about it is self taught. Therefore, I think it would be both beneficial for my learning (and more importantly to give me a good picture of what exactly I can and can't do in the film industry talent wise) to go to film school.

I've never done nor seen any formal surveys that illustrate where most of the working Directors have graduated from.

That said, my terribly informal circumstantial experience tells me that the majority of projects I've worked on in Los Angeles have been either directed by and/or produced by graduates of the University of Southern California (USC). A lot has to do with the curriculum, but I believe that MORE of their success has to do with the alumni and proximity factors. Working professionals, particularly at the top end above-the-line tend to live and work in Los Angeles. This allows some of them to go teach part-time at schools like USC, UCLA, AFI, and Art Center which gives students access to REAL experience AND potentially, get to talk directly with working professionals. And as we all know, it is about relationships, more than anything else, that allows for opportunities. Without opportunities, it doesn't matter how much you learned in school or how great your short films were. You HAVE TO have access to the established professionals. You're already playing the lottery by wanting to be a working professional in the film industry. You can only improve your odds of winning by playing the game in the city where the "yes men" live and work and go to school where they did.

If you want to learn for the sake of learning, then pick a school, any school, and read a lot of books (that we can recommend).

But if you want a more than average shot at becoming a working Director with a viable income, then you'll have to pay the ticket to ride the ride that most of them did... USC.

Brian Dzyak
Cameraman/Author
IATSE Local 600, SOC
http://www.whatireallywanttodo.com
http://www.realfilmcareer.com

quote:

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Originally posted by Pleasexplain
Maybe I didn't make this clear in the OP, and sorry if it was confusing,

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Not confusing at all. What happens on messageboards is
people answer according to their own experience. It seems
than none of the regulars here have specific experience
attending the two schools mentioned so we added to the
discussion. Better than then you getting no answers at all.

Sorry to not have the specific answers you want and maybe
I should just not answer at all, so my apologies, but I did
not attend any film school.

I would think any film school is what YOU make of it. Since
having a degree is irrelevant to getting a job, then everything
comes down to the person. It's too bad you don't live in an
area where you can find work on other peoples films. That's
where I learned everything I know and it was on working movie
sets where I made all my connections - the ones that have kept
my in jobs for many years.

I'm sure no matter which of the two you choose you will learn.
Then you will move to a city where there is a lot of production
and meet more people and work on more movies.

quote:

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Originally posted by Pleasexplain
For example:

(...)

-Are the classes enjoyable and informative, or is it busy work (as I saw many vague allusions to in reviews for AAU)?

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Unlike may young, inarticulate first time posters who come to this forum stating that they want to be filmmakers "...'cuz they love movies", your posts seem well thought out (which explains why several of us here made an effort to chip in).

Again, neither of us has gone to the two specific schools you mentioned, but as far as that one particular question I highlighted above is concerned, I can assure you that a serious film school will most certainly be very busy work. Much like any proper full-time college, you will have a multitude of concurrent assignments, projects, papers and tests to prepare and juggle at the same time. There is really no difference between, say, an engineering degree at Stamford and a film degree at USC with respect to the volume and relative difficulty of the required work. And the amount of enjoyment one gets out of classes will always directly depend on one's interest in the subject matter (much like engineering majors tend to enjoy their engineering subjects, even if the course requirements take up the bulk of their free time, so do film majors equally enjoy their film directing lectures and practical work). Since you have already completed an undergraduate college programme, you likely already have an idea how much work college requires. A good film school should be no different.

Again, as far as the two schools in question are concerned, I'm not quite convinced of value for money. Just like in moviemaking, where you try and organise your budget so that as much of your investment as possible ends up increasing your production value (i.e. showing up on screen), you'd want your film school to spend most of your tuition money on teaching you about film making, rather than buying billboard space...

Go to LA. Can't beat the network. Seriously.