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editing in 16mm

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(@march1291)
Posts: 8
Active Member
Topic starter
 

Hi! I'm extremely new to filmmaking, though I've been doing a lot of it on a $300 Digital 8 camcorder. Needless to say it's not award-winning footage. Well I just picked up a very old, used 16mm camera (?url? http://www.nwmangum.com/Kodak/CineKM16-1.html?/url?) and I have virtually no knowledge of how to use it, no film, and no editing equipment. What I want to know most is how to edit the film, what kind of processing I would have to have done to the film prior to its editing, and what exactly a magazine is as far as how I use it to load film into the camera? Thanks if anyone can help.

 
Posted : 30/07/2005 4:09 am
(@markg)
Posts: 1214
Noble Member
 

Typically you transfer to video, edit on your computer, then export an EDL from your editing program which you take to the negative cutter (ideally with a copy of the movie with burnt-in timecodes so they can verify it's cut in the right place) and throw money at them to cut the movie.

The exciting thing about 16mm is that every time you make a cut in the negative you destroy two frames of film (literally destroyed, they scrape off the emulsion and glue them together), so if they cut it wrong you may not be able to fix it. You also have to remember that when editing, and not try to make two cuts within two frames on the film.

Shooting 16fps may be a problem. If you only want a video edit I guess you could halve the speed of the video and get close to 30fps at nearly real-time speed, but it would stutter.

Actually, thinking about it, even with 24fps in NTSC land you have all the delights of 'pulldown' to worry about. In PAL land we can just shoot at 25fps and treat it as video, but NTSC has to convert from 24fps to 30fps by creating new frames, and then you need to ensure you don't cut at a frame which physically doesn't exist on the film.

 
Posted : 30/07/2005 11:21 am
(@march1291)
Posts: 8
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Topic starter
 

So I basically just have the film transferred to VHS, get in onto the computer, and cut it with Adobe.

What's an EDL? Is the that last step required if I want to keep my film on a VHS tape.

I thought about the 16fps things before I bought the camera, but I finally just decided to take what I could get. I figure I'll just half the speed. Once I get the film onto a VHS tape and off the computer, do you think it would play out alright then, having each frame doubled. The biggest downside to this is the fact that I usually shoot having the beginning and and end times sync up with a song, and just overlay the song. I'll have to account for the doubled frames.

(BTW Thanks for the help.)

 
Posted : 30/07/2005 1:55 pm
(@certified-instigator)
Posts: 2951
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The 16fps will prevent you from recording sync sound (dialogue) while shooting, but you can put music, sound effects and even dialogue in after you transfer your film to digital.

You?ll want to transfer the 16mm film to a digital tape - not VHS. MiniDV is good, even digital8 is okay. Transfer the footage to your computer. Then you will do all your editing and sound on the computer. Once it?s finished than you will output the final project to tape or DVD.

If you?re going to stay on video and never project your film you won?t need an EDL - Edit Decision List.

Everything Mark said about cutting the negative is correct. That whole process - especially shooting 16fps - would give a seasoned pro nightmares. I suggest that you start by shooting reversal film stock instead of negative and never projecting the film.

Once you have more experience then you can start learning the whole negative stock process, including EDL?s, A/B roll, mag stock, work print and that stuff.

One step at a time.

=============================================
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)

=============================================
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)

 
Posted : 30/07/2005 4:36 pm
(@march1291)
Posts: 8
Active Member
Topic starter
 

So I will need to shoot on the 16mm camera in 16fps, have the film transferred to Digital 8, use my camcorder to get the Digital 8 video onto my computer, edit it, then have it transferred to VHS or transfer to DVD myself? Thank you for the help.

One final question: Will I be able to run the final product at 16 frames per second to keep things in real time or is that something I could do in post on Adobe Premiere?

 
Posted : 31/07/2005 8:48 pm
(@markg)
Posts: 1214
Noble Member
 

No, if you output to tape or DVD the only options are 24fps or 30fps (or 25fps in PAL). Somehow you'll need to convert your footage to one of those frame rates.

Actually, I'm not certain whether you can record native 24fps to DVD or whether it has to be converted to 30fps. It definitely will have to be converted to 30fps for tape.

 
Posted : 31/07/2005 9:18 pm
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