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Camcorder Purchase Help

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(@vasic)
Posts: 487
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That AudioTechnica AT835B has been discontinued, but they have a similar new model available (AT8035):

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/97711-REG/Audio_Technica_AT8035_AT8035_Shotgun_Microphone.html

Røde mics are not much more expensive than AT. I'd check B&H Photo Video:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/400806-REG/Rode__NTG_2_Battery_or_Phantom.html

In fact, that store has pretty much all pro video equipment and is an excellent pricing reference, as you'll be hard pressed to find better prices elsewhere.

If you end up getting it from them, check their microphone kits. They often bundle a mic (A Røde NTG, for example) together with a shock-mount and a cable, and some bundles even include an aluminium fishpole (with internal coiled cable). The price of a kit is (obviously) cheaper than the total of individual components. I just ordered an AT kit for my workplace (a shotgun with shock-mount and XLR cable).

 
Posted : 01/06/2010 10:43 am
(@corax)
Posts: 208
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I know we're passed this point now, but just to add to public knowledge, I tested out the SM57 with my camera. It was brutal, my cam has auto-leveling and it looks like it tried to over compensate for the SM57's low levels. The recording is just baked with noise. A contiuous "shhhhhhhh." Completely unusable. There might be some other methods to use such a mic (ie. have a preamp before camera input, or use a different recording device), but on my tries it was really brutal.

----------
http://vimeo.com/corax

 
Posted : 04/06/2010 3:46 pm
(@jumi1174)
Posts: 18
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Topic starter
 

Thanks for all the input, guys; I appreciate it.

I've decided I'm going to go with the Panasonic AVCCAM AG-HMC40 ( http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=1857038), reasons being (1) HDV (and DV, for that matter) seem to be dying and not as versitile formats, and (2) 1080p is something that I want over 1080i, no sense in getting outdated tech if I can afford not to, in my opinion.

I'm going to have to get an external mic, however, because it doesn't come with one, so I'm definitely going to check out the sites posted.

I don't have any immediate questions, so if you have any info on the camera that you'd like to share, please tell me.

Thanks!

 
Posted : 09/06/2010 11:14 pm
(@vasic)
Posts: 487
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Excellent choice. If you do your googling, you'll find it for well below $2k:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/800705349-USE/Panasonic_AG_HMC40PJU_AG_HMC40_AVCCAM_HD_Camcorder.html

Not to mention that B&H Photo Video is rather well known among the pros on the East coast. They also have tons of microphones with similarly good prices. As I mentioned earlier, don't forget to check out their mic bundles.

I don't work there, nor does anyone I know work there. I just bought several things from them in the past (in person, as well as online).

 
Posted : 10/06/2010 11:58 am
(@jumi1174)
Posts: 18
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Topic starter
 

Thanks for the response. I have a couple questions now.

1) For the external mic, would you recommend the one Panasonic offers ( http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?storeId=11201&catalogId=13051&itemId=69495&surfModel=AG-MC200G) or one from B&H Photo Video (I saw some decent ones on there, I'm trying to keep the price under $300 if at all possible since the camera is costing a pretty penny...)?

2) All the recording will be going onto an SDHC card. The old camcorder I used to record on had a 40GB HDD (a small HD consumer camera, nothing special at all; I did, however, aquire my yearning for filmmaking with it), so I figure a 32GB SDHC card will work to begin with. Are all the 32GB SDHC cards I'm coming across the same? I'm assuming not because I've seen prices from $150 to $75, and I don't want to get a bad card.

Thanks in advance.

 
Posted : 10/06/2010 4:10 pm
(@vasic)
Posts: 487
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I don't know anything about Panasonic's shotgun mic. I do tend to believe that it will be heavily on the expensive side, compared to the third-party mics of similar quality; Panasonic is NOT exactly exclusively into microphone-making business. Besides, original makers usually charge a lot more for accessories than third-party makers.

As for cards, 32GB will give you over 3 hours of video. If your goal is movie making, it is unlikely that you'll ever need to make a continuous 3-hour shot. Therefore, I would rather shoot on multiple smaller (and comparatively cheaper) cards than on 32GB ones. 8GB cards (Class 6) are now below $20 each. Rather than spending $100 or more for a single 32GB Class 6 card, I'd rather get 4 8GB ones. Even if you shoot more than 3 hours of video in a day, you can still continue to seamlessly work. As soon as the first card is filled, second one goes into the camera and you continue to shoot. Meanwhile, your assistant backs up the first one onto an external HD (as well as on a Dual-Layer DVD), re-formats it and gets it ready. You're never out of blank cards; if anything catastrophic happens to the card in the camera, you will have lost at most 50 minutes of footage. Obviously, it is always a great idea to take the card out of the camera as soon as you've caled "Cut!" and back up the newly shot file(s) onto the computer before proceeding. That way, nothing is ever lost.

 
Posted : 11/06/2010 3:06 pm
(@jumi1174)
Posts: 18
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Topic starter
 

Thanks for the response.

For the memory cards, I'm going to do that, I didn't even think of that. Quick question though, how much better is a Class 10 speed over a Class 6 speed, especially with regards to recording HD footage?

Another question, Panasonic has this device ( http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000EO3WPC/ref=s9_simh_gw_p23_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=1GJXBG7K33SZ6H53Z7SX&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846) ( http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?storeId=11201&catalogId=13051&itemId=70145&surfModel=AG-MYA30G) (A link from Amazon and Panasonic). Since I already have XLR cables for my mics from music recording, would I need to get this in order to use the cables?

And lastly, shotgun mics:
1) http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/581522-REG/MXL_FR_304.html
2) http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/238826-REG/Azden_SGM_1X.html
3) http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/367746-REG/Rode_NTG_1.html
(it doesn't have to be these exact 3)

I'd like to keep it below $300. I have a pole I can use for now, so I don't think I'm going to need one of the kits that comes with a mount. I've seen some tutorials on the internet on how to rig up a windscreen, so I'm not worried about that either. Any recommendations please.

Thanks in advance.

 
Posted : 11/06/2010 4:43 pm
(@vasic)
Posts: 487
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Panasonic captures at 24Mbps (average rate about 21Mbps), which is 3MBps (2.625MBps).

Therefore:
HMC-40 = 3MBps (or 24Mbps)
Class 4 = 4MBps (or 32Mbps)
Class 6 = 6MBps (or 48Mbps)
Class 10=10Mbps (or 80Mbps)

In other words, Class 6 (even Class 4) is more than enough. Note the difference between B (bytes) and b (bits). There are 8 bits in one byte. This is the single major source of confusion when dealing with memory cards that specify data rates in bytes per second, and encoders, that specify bitrates in bits per second.

I know MXL are Chinese-made mics that musicians seem to like because they are very cheap and sound quite good. The quality control isn't quite stellar, so some mics come out poor (i.e. lemons). More often than with other makers. On the other hand, sub- $200 shotgun is a sweet deal... Røde is always a safe choice; they seem to be generally really good mics. If I were you, I'd order MXL online from a site that offers longer money-back period (for example, Musicians' Friend, with 45-day money back, at http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/MXL-FR304-1412-Shotgun-Mic?sku=485803). That way, you have enough time to thoroughly test the mic and see if it's good enough. If not, send it back and get the Røde.

 
Posted : 11/06/2010 5:46 pm
(@jumi1174)
Posts: 18
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Topic starter
 

Wow, thanks for the info.

So if it looks like I'll be getting a few Class 6 8GB cards, and that MXL shotgun mic.

If the mic is bad, will I know automatically or will I have to play around and test it?

And that about wraps up my questions for this whole process. You have all been a great help, especially Vasic and Corax. Thanks for all the replies and advice, you have no idea how much I appreciate it.

 
Posted : 11/06/2010 6:19 pm
(@jumi1174)
Posts: 18
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Topic starter
 

Sorry to double post, but quick question about the shotgun mic below.

I found this at amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-ME66-Short-Shotgun-Capsule/dp/B0003066X2/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&s=musical-instruments&qid=1276810128&sr=1-10

Also saw this: http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-Powering-capsules-powered-battery/dp/B0003066XM/ref=acc_glance_MI_ai_-2_t_1

On Sennheiser's website, they show this: http://www.sennheiserusa.com/professional_wired-microphones_broadcast-eng-film_k6-series_003284 (both of the above put together)

Am I going to have to buy the ME-66 plus the K6 Powering Module for the mic to work? Or can I just get the ME-66 and use that?

Thanks in advance.

 
Posted : 17/06/2010 6:02 pm
(@vasic)
Posts: 487
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It appears that the mic can't work without the power module.

As for your previous post ("If the mic is bad, will I know automatically..."), I would use the mic to record spoken voice in a variety of situations (indoors, outdoors, busy street, quiet street, busy office, quiet room, large auditorium with a presenter, a room with several people, up close, far away etc). I'd try to focus on determining the off-axis rejection, noise levels, sound quality, distortion/coloration, etc. Six weeks should be enough to get a good idea if the mic is good or not.

 
Posted : 18/06/2010 6:45 pm
(@jumi1174)
Posts: 18
Eminent Member
Topic starter
 

Well, I decided to go with the MXL FR-304 for the mic ( http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/581522-REG/MXL_FR_304.html), once you add it to your cart, it's only $120, so I can't pass that up with my micro-budget.

Two more final questions (I think)...

As I've said before, I have a recording interface (along with software) that I use for music recording. This device: http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/PreSonus-FP10-10x10-FireWire-Interface-Firepod?sku=242036

1) Say I'm inside (or have access to an electrical outlet), would it be better to run the shotgun mic through the recording interface + recording software to get the audio? Or should I have the shotgun mic going directly into the camera?

2) If I don't have access to electricity, what should I do? Go through camera? Or try to rig up a way to use the recording gear? I'm trying to think of a way to use the recording gear without an electrical outlet or a generator... Is there any, like, general portable battery device that electronics can be plugged in to?

Thanks in advance.

 
Posted : 23/06/2010 1:20 pm
(@vasic)
Posts: 487
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That PreSonus is sweet! My understanding is that it requires external power (i.e. no power via FireWire). Therefore, you're limited to working within reach of an extension cable.

Most certainly, I would prefer using PreSonus than going straight into the camera. You get the 48v phantom power (camera doesn't have it, so you'd have to use the battery), and the interface obviously lets you record 24bit/96kHz audio. The only minor issue is syncing your audio files with your video, but that's really a minor one (you'll be using a clapperboard anyway).

As for 'general portable battery devices', I'm not sure if any are available, but a DIY idea came to mind. Get a cheap car (or motorcycle) battery (around $30 for a 4AH size), a charger for car batteries (around $50), and a power inverter (around $30, http://www.amazon.com/Cobra-Watt-Power-Inverter-output/dp/B001RNOHBC). These three would provide enough power to run a 4W device for 12 hours (or 12W for 4 hours). In fact, if you already own a car (i.e. if you live outside of Manhattan...), you just need the inverter (and an extension cord). Ordinary car battery is around 40AH, so you'll have plenty of juice for the whole day of shooting, with more than enough left at the end of the day to start the car.

If there is no power (and no power inverter), you can always connect the mic into the camcorder. The audio should still be good enough.

I would strongly suggest carefully testing both scenarios (PreSonus, as well as plugging directly) in various outdoor and indoor conditions, and listening for noise, distortion, off-axis rejection and sound quality.

 
Posted : 23/06/2010 2:41 pm
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