quote:

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Originally posted by Protoman2050

I'll be enrolling in Orange Coast College's (Costa Mesa, CA) film
major after I complete my last GE reqs (German, PoliSci, and Speech).

I've always been interested in creative arts, esp. writing, and I've
wanted to make films out of my work.

Stupid question: Once I get my film degree, get work as a PA, and
submit my 600 days to join as a 2nd AD, and then get 520 days as a 2nd AD to become a 1st AD, how do I get to join as a director? Direct a film?

Perhaps I could write/co-write a script, hire some freshly-graduated actors who are willing to work for minimum wage, and have me, the
cinematographer, and the editor invest money to form the production
company, and produce the film ourselves. Then enter it into a
relatively well-known film festival (obviously not Cannes, but maybe Sundance, or the Newport Beach FF), and hope a distributor picks it up, or distribute it ourselves.

Doug

Fencing is what happens when you take swashbuckling, which is highly dangerous and life-threatening, and turn it into a game.

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If you want to be a Director, taking the AD route is not necessarily the route to go. The AD Department prepares you more for a career as a UPM or Producer, not as a creative Director. Being in the DGA doesn't give you a "one-up" to "become" a Director. It doesn't work like that.

Director's come from all sorts of places. Some people just go out and make an indie film or start in commercials or music videos as Directors. Some, not many, but some, do start out doing some other job on the crew and manage to make the move up (or over, really) to directing.

There is no single way to create a career as a Director, but the more you spend time doing OTHER jobs, like being an AD, the less likely you will have the opportunity to be a Director. One reason for that is because you could be pigeonholed as that thing that you choose to do. If you spend years in the AD Department, those who hire Directors won't see you as a potential Director as much as they'll see you as a qualified AD (or whatever). Afterall, if you were that great of a Director, you wouldn't be an AD for all those years! Accurate or not, that's the way it works a lot of the time.

Also, as you're spending time "working your way up to Director," you'll be working and making money and living your life, which may include getting married, buying a house, cars, having kids, sending them to school, building debt, etc.... and you'll have to keep earning income to pay for all of that. Making the jump to Directing, or any other job for that matter, tends to also mean taking a significant CUT in pay while you work to build that new career. Young people aren't usually saddled with that type of financial overhead and other responsibilities so they are better able to roll with the punches that it takes to build such a tentative career. Older people tend to have those responsibilities so they have less freedom to earn less and go where they need to in order to make it as a career Director.

Again, this isn't to say that you COULDN'T take that AD route and someday convince someone to let you direct for a living. It happens. Not often, but it happens. However, instead of relying on "maybe," there are things you CAN do to improve your odds of creating and maintaining the career you really want. There is no "secret" to doing any of this beyond just knowing how the professional industry REALLY works.

I urge you to take a look at the following resources which WILL help you to be aware of just about everything you need to know BEFORE jumping into a career path.

http://www.amazon.com/What-Really-Want-Set-Hollywood/dp/0823099539/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1211895862&sr=8-1

http://www.wordplayer.com

http://www.amazon.com/Film-Producer-Industry-Veteran-Hollywood/dp/0312069693/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpi_2

Good luck!

Brian Dzyak
Cameraman/Author
IATSE Local 600, SOC
http://www.whatireallywanttodo.com
http://www.realfilmcareer.com

quote:

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Originally posted by Protoman2050
Perhaps I could write/co-write a script, hire some freshly-graduated actors who are willing to work for minimum wage, and have me, the
cinematographer, and the editor invest money to form the production
company, and produce the film ourselves. Then enter it into a
relatively well-known film festival (obviously not Cannes, but maybe Sundance, or the Newport Beach FF), and hope a distributor picks it up, or distribute it ourselves.

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This seems like the MUCH better path to being a
director. Direct movies.

And you don't even need a degree to do that, nor
do you need to hire some freshly-graduated actors
who are willing to work for minimum wage. If you
make one short film a month, using people willing
to work for free, you will have six to ten completed
short films ad a director in the time it takes to finish
one year at OCC.

In the 600 day you mention - almost 20 months - you
could finish 15 to 20 short films as a director. Not a
2nd, but as a director. Imagine if three to five of those
were good enough to get into Sundance...

Then instead of spending the next 520 days working
your way up to a 1st, you could make a very low budget
feature film. Because after spending 27 months (almost
3 years) working your way up the ladder to a producer
you will still need to start at the bottom as a director.

You COULD just start by directing. And you can direct
short films while completing your GE reqs. Make one
every 60 days. One weekend every two months shooting
a movie isn't really that time consuming, is it?

=============================================
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)

Thank you SO much!

One of the reasons I decided to go into film. other than having a passion for creative arts, was that there is this MASSIVE waitlist around 2 years in length for my "real" major at OCC, cardiovascular technology (doing EKGs, stress tests, echocardiograms, etc.), and I need to keep my name on the college books, so I decided to do the film major to fill my time up, as it really appealed to me -- The perfect combo of art and technology.

Then I'll have a really cool, high-paying day-job to support my film passion. Work 7-3, spend the rest of the day directing and producing films w/ my film school buddies.

Thanks for the help!

Fencing is what happens when you take swashbuckling, which is highly dangerous and life-threatening, and turn it into a game.

So, let's say I have a budget of $15,000 ($5000 from me, $5000 from the cinematographer, and $5000 from the editor), and we buy a $3000 camcorder, $250 of DV tape, and $500 on lights, $250 on a few boom poles, $500 on mics, and $4000 on the Avid Media Composer Mojo SDI system, and we set up the production company. We then use the remaining $6500 for stuff related to the scipt we're shooting, like props, location permits, etc. Is that the way to shoot an indie film?

Fencing is what happens when you take swashbuckling, which is highly dangerous and life-threatening, and turn it into a game.

After the project is finished who owns the equipment? If
this is your plan, make sure you have that little detail in
writing.

Frankly you would be much better off using about half of
the $8,500 you plan to spend on equipment and renting
it. Use the system the editor currently has for your first
project. and spend the $10,750 on the production of the
movie.

Ten large isn't much to make a feature film. Six is kinda
crazy.

=============================================
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)

quote:

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Originally posted by Protoman2050

So, let's say I have a budget of $15,000 ($5000 from me, $5000 from the cinematographer, and $5000 from the editor), and we buy a $3000 camcorder, $250 of DV tape, and $500 on lights, $250 on a few boom poles, $500 on mics, and $4000 on the Avid Media Composer Mojo SDI system, and we set up the production company. We then use the remaining $6500 for stuff related to the scipt we're shooting, like props, location permits, etc. Is that the way to shoot an indie film?

Fencing is what happens when you take swashbuckling, which is highly dangerous and life-threatening, and turn it into a game.

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As mentioned, renting the gear per project is a much more efficient way to deal with equipment. Nowhere in your budget above do you mention a mixer and recorder for the sound, but you have mics and "a few" boom poles. Nor do I see a budget for lights, light stands, c-stands, sandbags, diffusion, gels, etc etc etc.... It takes far much more "stuff" to make a professional looking project than a camera and a few mics.

You also need to hire people and PEOPLE are your biggest most valuable resource. You could buy all the best equipment in the world, but without qualified skilled people who know how to use it efficiently, then you'll spend your days trying to get just a few shots done when you instead could have completed two or three entire scenes. I've personally seen the difference over the past twenty years. Productions which "skimp" on crew are inherently less efficient, therefore not only do they get far fewer shots during the day, but those shots aren't nearly as good anyway.

"Stuff related to the script you're shooting" IS the gear. You of course need a camera, but the type of camera you need may vary for each project. And the same goes for the lighting/grip/electric departments too. And most Sound Mixers (the guy, not the gear) have a mixer, a digital recorder, and two boom poles with quality mics at most, not "a few."

It's also important to consider just where you plan to show your projects. If festivals are the goal, know that the submission requirements may vary, so acquiring images in one format and finishing may be fine for one festival, but those may not work for others.

The best "production companies" out there do not own gear and many do not have much staff on salary. Instead, the companies concentrate on projects and then gathering the forces and resources necessary on a per-project basis. Not only that, they look for investors or other financing on a per-project basis so that they (you and your partners) aren't putting up your own cash to finance the company and the projects, but instead, the financing package is built with all the production costs included AND an income for you too. Probably the only guy in "Hollywood" who spends his own money on his movies is George Lucas, but he's also on the Forbes list of billionaires so he can afford to. One of the first rules of movie-making is to never spend your own money!

So, think carefully through your business plan before partnering with anyone else, particularly when real money is part of the equation. Filmmaking IS fun, but it is also pricey. Some "cheap" productions have gotten attention and the "film"makers have gone on to real careers... but very very very few of them have found real success. We tend to hear about the radically successful ones but never about the millions of "failures." Tread carefully and you can have fun and hopefully make money doing this (so that you can KEEP ON doing it). But rush into it, and the fun may evaporate surprisingly quickly.

One last thing... instead of thinking about all the quickie projects you can make, I'd instead concentrate on making a really great one, at least at first. Have additional projects in mind, but churning out a hundred mediocre or bad projects likely will mean to others that you are just mediocre or bad. But making one truly amazing project shows others that you are truly amazing and worth risking investment capital into. More does not necessarily better. When you're just starting, certainly get some practice with some short projects, but definitely do not spend a lot of money on them. They are like rough drafts that you use to critique your own abilities so you can improve. THEN, when you feel better about what you (and your friends) are capable of, then make your epic that is meant for the public.

Good luck!

Brian Dzyak
Cameraman/Author
IATSE Local 600, SOC
http://www.whatireallywanttodo.com
http://www.realfilmcareer.com

If you want to be a Director, your best bet is to do your research on the subject. Learn everything and anything a Director's job entails. Really all it is: you're in charge of keeping all of the other pieces (i.e. your "cast / crew") in play. You'll be doing a lot of intervening (if you happen to come across a cast and/or crew that disagrees with one another), and you'll most likely find yourself not bathing or shaving for days at a time, however trust me: it's worth the time and effort.

My suggestion: think of an idea, find a close friend who can write, run the idea by him/her, and co-write a feature length screenplay with them. Once the screenplay is completed (do a Google search for "How To Write A Screenplay" or "Screenplay Format" for some advice on how to go about making it as professional as possible), everything will seemingly fall into place.

Go step-by-step. First you need a script. Either write one or find someone who has one already and wants to see it on-screen but simply doesn't have the resources to do it themselves. It may take you years to accomplish (you'll need investors, equipment...), but if it's truly what you want to be, you don't need to bother with the whole "Assistant Director" thing. It may prove to be just a waste of time. Hope I helped.

"Let every eye negotiate for itself, and trust no agent" - Willy Shakespeare