All i can think right now is that if you are a first time film maker you shouldnt be thingking about feature films. You have to understand what a huuuuge task making a feature film is, Shooting over several weeks, processing an average 20 hours of footage. Its not easy to deal with for a first step. This is what you have to do. Make shorter films. First of all you need some experience in making your own films, and what better way of getting that than... making your own films, but start small, as in short films. 7-15 minute short films. And trust me, 5 crap short films will look much better than a terrible feature film. Not trying to suggest that you are a crap director, but film making is not something that will just come to, or can be taught in a class, you need real hands on film making experience to get good at it. so once you make 5 short films, A) you are going to get heaps better B) your crew will have much more confidence in you and are more likely to want to work on a feature film and C) you havent wasted your fabulous feature film script by directing it when you had little idea of what you were doing. Trust me, my first 3 films were crap, terrible and i hardly want to show anyone them, but everyones got a couple of crap films in them and its best to get them out firt.

Also a few other tips.
A good camera is cool but dont waste money on it really. HD is nice but dont get a crap HD handicam. My reccomendation would be to buy something that at least has all the nessecities of a basic film making camera, focus, zoom, and iris ring. Buy a new or second hand Sony PD170 for your first few films. Or better still, find a DOP or camera op who has one and use them on the film. Either way, a camera is irrelevant really, whats more important is how you use it and light the frame. Ive seen films shot on handicams look like film because of how they use lighting and camera movement. So dont think that you need the best camera to make your film look good. Other factors will influence this more.

Dont forget that filmmakign is a collaborative process, dont try and do everything yourself or you wont learn one of the most important parts of directing, getting crews to understand your vision and what you want to see. And dont do editing yourself, find an editor and keep him off set, his neutral, unbiased reaction to the film shot will help in creating the best cut of your film. Trust me. Ive been editing films for a few years and find that the best edits ive done are of other peoples films.

Ok ive swayed a bit but i hope this helps a lot. Its just my opinion though, someone else is bound to contradict me.

Tim Ellis
Post Production Editor
<a href="mailto:paradox.ct?gmail.com">paradox.ct?gmail.com</a>

Good stuff Tim. My only question is about the editor. How do you know when to allow an editor to be the one to decide how the film ends up? I agree that an editor who has not been on set would probably be the best choice for an editor, but how do you trust your editor unless you have allowed them to edit a film you have done before?

Thats a good point. The director should work with the editor closely and should have the final say on all the editing descisions. Trust is a big part of it. as is being able to send out someone to do the editing work and understand ones vision, i guess that comes with working with the same editor/director team for many productions. but you have to start with someone i guess. There are different ways to work in terms of editing.

My workflow usually works around me screening dailies with the director and discussing the good and bad points of the footage and how it can work together. Taking notes the whole way. Then i will take the footage, digitise it and make the first assembly cut, by myself, then the director comes back, we talk, make some changes, try some things, and so on untill we are happy. I feel its really important for the editor to have some time alone working on the film. Just to get the feeling of the scene without having the director breathing down ones neck. bringing emotion and feeling through the cutting takes time and concentration to get, and much easyer when the editor is given time to do this by his or her self.

Oops, another segue. But dont be afraid of an editor doing stuff on your film, like any other role, you dont tell your DOP exactly where he should put his lights, or an audio guy where to point the boom, they are all working towards one vision and should be able to do their jobs without being told how to do them by the director.

Tim Ellis
Post Production Editor
<a href="mailto:paradox.ct?gmail.com">paradox.ct?gmail.com</a>

Getting that "film look" has more to do with the skill and experience of the DP and gaffer than with the camera. I'm not saying that a good camera is worthless, but don't assume that the camera is what give you the look you're after.

Technology is shifting and will continue to shift. Since you aren't making this movie for another year, you might want to consider not buying a camera al all. In summer 2008 you can hire a good DP with their own equipment and let them worry about the look while you concentrate on the everything else needed to make a movie.

Here's a list of movies made standard, affordable video cameras that got theatrical release. It might ease some of your fears:

FILM: Inland Empire
DIRECTOR: David Lynch
DISTRIBUTOR: Studio Canal
PLAYDATES: December 2006
FORMAT/CAMERA: Sony PD-150
TRANSFER: FotoKem Film and Video

FILM: Open Water
DIRECTOR: Chris Kentis
DISTRIBUTOR: Lions Gate
PLAYDATES: August 2004
FORMAT/CAMERA: Sony PD-150

FILM: The Anniversary Party
DIRECTOR: Alan Cumming/Jennifer Jason Leigh
DISTRIBUTOR: Fine Line/Buena Vista
PLAYDATES: June 2001
FORMAT/CAMERA: Sony DSR-500
TRANSFER:

FILM: The Lost Skeleton of Cadavra
DIRECTOR: Larry Blamire
DISTRIBUTOR: TriStar Pictures
PLAYDATES: March 2004
FORMAT/CAMERA: Canon XL-1
TRANSFER:

FILM: 28 Days Later
DIRECTOR: Danny Boyle
DISTRIBUTOR: Fox Searchlight
PLAYDATES: June 3002
FORMAT/CAMERA: Canon XL-1S
TRANSFER:

FILM: Pieces of April
DIRECTOR: Peter Hegdes
DISTRIBUTOR: MGM/UA
PLAYDATES: October 2003
FORMAT/CAMERA: Sony PD-150
TRANSFER: Swiss Effects

FILM: Bamboozled
DIRECTOR: Spike Lee
DISTRIBUTOR: New Line
PLAYDATES: Opened theatrically October 6, 2000
FORMAT/CAMERA: MiniDV - Sony VX 1000 PAL
TRANSFER: Swiss Effects

FILM: Book Of Life
DIRECTOR: Hal Hartley
DISTRIBUTOR: Fox Lorber
FORMAT/CAMERA: MiniDV - VX1000 (NTSC)
TRANSFER: Sony High Definition Center

FILM: The Celebration
DIRECTOR: Thomas Vinterberg
DISTRIBUTOR: October Films
PLAYDATES: Opened theatrically Fall ?98
FORMAT/CAMERA: MiniDV - Sony PC7 PAL
TRANSFER: Lukkien

FILM: The Chateau
DIRECTOR: Jesse Peretz
DISTRIBUTOR: IFC Films
PLAYDATES: Opening theatrically Fall 2002
FORMAT/CAMERA: MiniDV - Sony TRV 900 PAL
TRANSFER: Swiss Effects

FILM: Chuck & Buck
DIRECTOR: Miguel Arteta
DISTRIBUTOR: Artisan
PLAYDATES: Opened theatrically July 2000
FORMAT/CAMERA: MiniDV - Sony VX1000 PAL
TRANSFER: Swiss Effects

FILM: The Cruise
DIRECTOR: Bennett Miller
DISTRIBUTOR: Artisan Entertainment
PLAYDATES: Opened theatrically Fall 1998
FORMAT/CAMERA: MiniDV - Sony VX1000 NTSC
TRANSFER: Sony High Definition Center

FILM: Dancer In The Dark
DIRECTOR: Lars Von Trier
DISTRIBUTOR: Fine Line
PLAYDATES: Opened theatrically October 2000
FORMAT/CAMERA: DVCAM - Sony PD 100 & Sony DXC D30WS PAL
TRANSFER: Hokus Bogus
BUDGET: $12,500,000

FILM: Everything Put Together
DIRECTOR: Marc Forster
DISTRIBUTOR: Vitagraph Films
PLAYDATES: Opened theatrically November 2001
FORMAT/CAMERA: MiniDV - Sony VX1000 PAL
TRANSFER: Swiss Effects
BUDGET: $500,000

FILM: Final
DIRECTOR: Campbell Scott
DISTRIBUTOR: Lion's Gate
FORMAT/CAMERA: MiniDV - Canon XL-1 PAL
PLAYDATES: Limited theatrical (5 screens) Jan 2002
TRANSFER: Tape House Digital
NOTES: InDigEnt?s first project
BUDGET: $80,000

FILM: Chelsea Walls
DIRECTOR: Ethan Hawke
DISTRIBUTOR: Lions Gate
PLAYDATES: Opened theatrically April 2002
FORMAT/CAMERA: DVCAM - Sony PD100 PAL
TRANSFER: Duart (Laser)
NOTES: InDigEnt 2nd movie.

FILM: Full Frontal
DIRECTOR: Steven Soderbergh
DISTRIBUTOR: Miramax
PLAYDATES: Opening theatrically Fall 2002
FORMAT/CAMERA: MiniDV ? Canon XL1s PAL
NOTES: Edited on Final Cut Pro
BUDGET: $2,000,000

FILM: Hotel
DIRECTOR: Mike Figgis
PLAYDATES: Premiered at the 2001 Toronto Int'l. Film Festival
FORMAT/CAMERA: DVCAM - Sony PD 100 & PD150 PAL

FILM: Julien Donkey Boy
DIRECTOR: Harmony Korine
DISTRIBUTOR: Fine Line
PLAYDATES: Opened theatrically October 1999
FORMAT/CAMERA: MiniDV ? Canon XL1 PAL; 8 other cameras
TRANSFER: Swiss Effects

FILM: Time Code
DIRECTOR: Mike Figgis
DISTRIBUTOR: Screen Gems
PLAYDATES: Limited theatrical April 2000
FORMAT/CAMERA: Sony DSR-1
BUDGET: $4,000,000

FILM: In This World
DIRECTOR: Michael Winterbottom
DISTRIBUTOR: Lions Gate
PLAYDATES: Limited release Sept 2003
FORMAT/CAMERA: Sony PD150/Sony PC-9
BUDGET: $1,900,000

FILM: Supersize Me
DIRECTOR: Morgan Spurlock
DISTRIBUTOR: Samuel Goldwyn Films
PLAYDATES: Opened theatrically May 2004
FORMAT/CAMERA: Sony PD150
BUDGET: $300,000

FILM: Waterborne
DIRECTOR: Ben Rekhi
DISTRIBUTOR: MTI Home Video
PLAYDATES: Festival March 2005/DVD release Feb 2006
FORMAT/CAMERA: Panasonic DVX100s
BUDGET: $198,000

FILM: Lonesome Jim
DIRECTOR: Steve Buscemi
DISTRIBUTOR: InDigEnt - IFC Films
PLAYDATES: Opened theatrically March 2006
FORMAT/CAMERA: Panasonic DVX 100
BUDGET: $500,000

FILM: Party Monster
DIRECTOR: Fenton Bailey/Randy Barbato
DISTRIBUTOR: Strand Releasing
PLAYDATES: Opened theatrically September 2003
FORMAT/CAMERA: Canon XL-1

FILM: The Rage
DIRECTOR: Robert Kurtzman
DISTRIBUTOR:
PLAYDATES: November 2006
FORMAT/CAMERA: JVC GY-DV110U

FILM: L.A. Takedown
DIRECTOR: K. Raj Srivastava
DISTRIBUTOR:
PLAYDATES:
FORMAT/CAMERA: JVC GY-DV110U

=============================================
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)

Thank you for the feedback thus far. Keep it coming because I'm taking notes. The list of films will be very helpful. I'll have to see all these films soon. I have already seen a few of them. I'll be back on this thread to continue discussion ASAP. Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

Another thing about editors that I hadn't considered is the burnout factor. Not the editors burnout factor but yours. At some point after writing and directing and producing your picture there can be serious burnout and it's very nice to have someone to pass the baton onto while you regain your energy.

RJSchwarz
San Diego, CA

Yall...

I had some writers submit to me some scripts and now I think I have found the perfect script for my first indie film. It's a great little story that will be a corny, surreal comedy reminscent of a Cohen bros film such as O Brother Where Art thou. This is a very good script. Well written, and the jokes are really funny. This script is highly inventive, funny, and has a lot of style and charisma.

What next? I need some money and help. I'd like to shoot this next year on video. So now is the time to plan and work.

Advice going forward?

Should I shoot a trailer first?

How do I solicit help and money?

Could I pull it off guerilla or Mariachi style(Robert Rodriguez...El Mariachi)?

Need to decide on the right cameras.

This is not an action film...no explosions or car chases. Good script for low budget. Good script for indie project.

I live near Wilmington, NC(known as Hollywood East)...so maybe there are some people and resources there I can tap into. Some good films have been done there(Blue Velvet)...and I think the university has a film department.

Films done in Wilmington,NC...

http://www.wilmington-film.com/wilmington_credits_list.asp?CreditCatID=16

regarding the trailer issue. i beleive you should focus on the movie itself only. when you have sufficent footage 80-90% done, collect some good clips that let people see the feel of the movie, without revealing any mahor pionts of the plot. set the date that you think you wil be done with post production, and put it in the trailer. i find if you make a trailer first (i.e my first teaser trailer for my movie richard ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMuJR9nfelo?, i set the date to spring 2007. it is now almost fall and we are still filming =?) the date is often innacurate.

thats just what works best for me,

"They say a picture is worth a thousand words. But a film? Well, thats worth a thousand pictures."
-(Own3d Studios)-
www.myspace.com/own3dstudio

regarding the trailer issue. i beleive you should focus on the movie itself only. when you have sufficent footage 80-90% done, collect some good clips that let people see the feel of the movie, without revealing any mahor pionts of the plot. set the date that you think you wil be done with post production, and put it in the trailer. i find if you make a trailer first (i.e my first teaser trailer for my movie richard ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMuJR9nfelo?, i set the date to spring 2007. it is now almost fall and we are still filming =?) the date is often innacurate.

thats just what works best for me,

"They say a picture is worth a thousand words. But a film? Well, thats worth a thousand pictures."
-(Own3d Studios)-
www.myspace.com/own3dstudio