quote:

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Originally posted by Aspiring mogul

The New York Times has an article today on how the Gulf States want to diversity their economies from oil to, among other things, film, so they've been pouring money into this. This hasn't worked so far, but they do have a lot of money to spend.

?url? http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/31/business/global/31middle.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&ref=global?/url?

I have two problems with this. First of all, throwing money at a problem won't necessarily solve it, or London, New York, and Tokyo would be the world centers for everything - these financial centers have more money than even the Gulf States. Second, the Gulf States may have the oil curse - oil is so lucrative that their currencies will always be highly valued, so much so that they will never be able to diversify - and everyone in the country will want to go into oil - why be a starving actor when they can be J.R. Ewing?

But I'd like to know what the insiders think about this.

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Head to http://www.realfilmcareer.com and click on the Incentives link on the right side of the screen. There you'll see just how pervasive this rush to provide the biggest and best tax incentives is all over the world.

Anytime a new state or region gets even one major film, their film commission marketing department goes into overdrive with announcements that they are the "New Hollywood!" But the truth is that "Hollywood" will only go to those places as long as the incentives are there... meaning, "Corporate Welfare" so that the Production Companies/Studios pay less for "manufacturing" (physical production) and the states/regions lose out on precious revenue that is needed to pay for essential "services," like education, roads, healthcare, fire departments, Police, etc.

So yes, governments (state and national) handing cash over to already wealthy Corporations is essentially paying them a bribe to bring the productions there which the regions HOPE will generate local revenue via hotel, food, and other expenditures while the crew is there. But many states are auditing these types of deals and are discovering that they indeed do NOT provide their regions the desired income and in some cases, actually COST them important money that they need for other things.

If states and other governments would STOP handing free cash to Corporations, then Corporations would be forced to pay EVERYONE around the world the same rates. Then no one would be exploited for less than they are worth. And if film employees everywhere would stop agreeing to work for less than they're worth and insist on the "going rates," then we'd all benefit.

But in the meantime, as the "Milton Friedman" economic ideology of unfettered greed continues it's rape and pillage across the globe, we'll have states and nations battling it out to see who can give more free cash to Corporations in the hope that they'll leave crumbs of money in their wake for the little people.

Brian Dzyak
Cameraman/Author
IATSE Local 600, SOC
http://www.whatireallywanttodo.com
http://www.realfilmcareer.com

I don't think that throwing money or giving tax breaks by themselves will do it.

I'm wondering, though, from the insiders - do you see any new centers rising? I know Vancouver, Canada, is one such place, and perhaps Bollywood, India, may be another. I think Hollywood is going to lose its luster, but I don't know if Bollywood (or Abu Dhabi) will take its place.

Vancouver was the "new center" 25 years ago. It was "Hollywood North" for
about 20 years and only in the past 5 years or so has it lost a little of it's
luster as the new thing. India produces more films per year than any other
country. But so far it's not where producers from the states are heading to
shoot and save money. During the late 80's Romania was a cheap place to
shoot so a lot of low budget films were shot there. The crews and facilities
there have gotten better in the last ten years and movies are still shot there,
but I don't think it's become the new center.

Right now Michigan is offering major tax incentives so a lot of movies are
being shot there. It's been a huge success for that state.

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The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress.
Joseph Joubert, essayist (1754-1824)

In terms of "the center" of "Hollywood," Los Angeles will always be the defacto "center" primarily because the studios and Execs and most A-talent, in front of and behind the camera, live there.

Most of the largest projects still hire the Department Heads and even their "Seconds" from the experienced crew who have built lives in Southern California. When projects go on the road in search of the best tax incentive, they'll bring along those top Keys and fill out the rest of the crew with locals.

About ten years ago or so, Canada "took" away most mid-level budget productions from LA, like movie's-of-the-week and some television. Most Sit-coms are still produced and shot in LA. Features, as mentioned, go pretty much to whichever government (state or national) will hand out the biggest incentive. Michigan, Louisiana, Georgia are all doing okay. There's some production going on in New Mexico (I'll be there next week on a movie) as well as New York, Boston, and a few other places. Eastern Europe (Prague, Budapest) were hotspots for a while, but lack of incentives has dried that market up almost entirely. New Zealand and Australia still get some production.

The gist is that production is scattered to the winds right now so there isn't a single location that someone could count on making a living as a film worker for the rest of his/her life. While Michigan, for example, seems like a great bet right now, eventually, some other place will have better incentives or the lack of facilities and qualified crew will drive productions somewhere else.

There are no sure things anymore. For a long time, North Carolina looked like the "new Hollywood," but it fights for every project now just like everywhere else.

Brian Dzyak
Cameraman/Author
IATSE Local 600, SOC
http://www.whatireallywanttodo.com
http://www.realfilmcareer.com

Florida has attempted to become a "go to" state for filming for three decades.

I shot a movie there in Sept 07. We needed the Keys for the setting and I found
the crews to be excellent and the rental houses well equipped. Frankly, we didn't
save much money over shooting here in L.A.

Interesting. I understand that the 3 biggest production centers are LA, NY, and Vancouver, respectively, and I am thinking of moving to one of these places, if I was to really make an effort in film. From my readings of the various multi-media personalities and the companies they formed, it seems that they made it big in one of these three cities, but nowhere else has anyone really done so.

In software, by contrast, Microsoft has made it big in Seattle, and, before that, Wang Labs made it big in hardware in Boston. So someone can start a big computer company outside of Silicon Valley. But no one that I know of has made it big outside of LA, NY, and Vancouver.

Am I correct?

quote:

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Originally posted by Aspiring mogul

Interesting. I understand that the 3 biggest production centers are LA, NY, and Vancouver, respectively, and I am thinking of moving to one of these places, if I was to really make an effort in film. From my readings of the various multi-media personalities and the companies they formed, it seems that they made it big in one of these three cities, but nowhere else has anyone really done so.

In software, by contrast, Microsoft has made it big in Seattle, and, before that, Wang Labs made it big in hardware in Boston. So someone can start a big computer company outside of Silicon Valley. But no one that I know of has made it big outside of LA, NY, and Vancouver.

Am I correct?

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I guess it depends on what your definition of "making it big" is. If you want a career below-the-line... as in a life-long career working on set in one of the "crafts," without worrying about having a second back-up career to tide you over when things get slow, then those three you name are the likely choices. This isn't to say that you can't get steady work in any of the other areas, BUT know that because those newer production areas have smaller markets, there is likely even MORE competition for the few jobs that come in and those who are already the "A list" in those cities will get those jobs first. As much as production has moved out of LA, there still tends to be more varied opportunity for those who need to get a start.

If you want to "make it big" as a Director or Producer, not just one movie, but as a career Director or Producer, again, you really need to just start doing those things wherever you are, but at some point, it is likely that being close to those who control the money and resources (the studios) will draw you to a large city, like LA. Again, the caveat, this isn't to say that you can't make it anywhere else. There are examples of people who have done that, but most who have "made it" have, at one point or another, lived in LA permanently or on a part-time basis. "Big time" feature Directors sometimes direct commercials or television episodics and those are often "produced" out of LA or NY or Vancouver.

Ultimately the "answer" is that there is no single "answer." You need to follow the path that seems right for you based on what your goals are, what you are capable of in terms of skill, and what your limitations are in terms of finances and other "life" factors. What's right for one person may be entirely wrong for you. So as I've tried to impart here, in my book, and on the websites listed below, the "Secret" to success isn't so much about learning "how to" do things... it's about learning how things really work. Arm yourself with the realities of the industry and life in general and then you are better equipped to make the choices that will lead you to your goals.

Brian Dzyak
Cameraman/Author
IATSE Local 600, SOC
http://www.whatireallywanttodo.com
http://www.realfilmcareer.com

Brian,

I agree that there is no one answer, so I'm trying to see the nature of this business.

Are you saying all roads lead to LA? Or can someone (say, Woody Allen or Martha Stewart) make it big in NY too?

quote:

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Originally posted by Aspiring mogul

Brian,

I agree that there is no one answer, so I'm trying to see the nature of this business.

Are you saying all roads lead to LA? Or can someone (say, Woody Allen or Martha Stewart) make it big in NY too?

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It depends on what YOU want to do with your life. You can "make it big" anywhere, but you can improve your odds by keeping informed about the state of the industry. Who knows? Maybe you move to NY and meet just the right person at the right time and you have the right "stuff" that causes that person to help you get on the road to where you want to go.

Or you spend twenty years in NY and you struggle, become bitter, and live out your life wondering what you did wrong.

There is no one answer that fits everyone. There just isn't. Maybe LA. Maybe NY. Maybe Topeka. Who knows? Just keep track of what's going on in the professional industry by reading the trades (Hollywood Reporter, Variety), websites (www.realfilmcareer.com, http://www.deadline.com/hollywood),and read and learn everything you can from working professionals (www.whatireallywanttodo.com, www.wordplayer.com, www.cinematography.com, www.cinematography.net)

and...stay passionate, focused, driven, aware. You have to know what YOU want from a career and from life then work toward that armed with the knowledge about the realities you may encounter along the way.

Brian Dzyak
Cameraman/Author
IATSE Local 600, SOC
http://www.whatireallywanttodo.com
http://www.realfilmcareer.com

quote:

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Originally posted by Aspiring mogul
I agree that there is no one answer, so I'm trying to see the nature of this business.

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The nature of the business is there is no, one
answer. If there was, everyone would follow it.
In my opinion, trying to understand the nature
of this is folly.

Woody Allen isn't where he is today because of
where he lived. New York has nothing to do with
his talent as a writer. Martha Stewart didn't achieve
her success because she was a stockbroker who
moved to Connecticut and started a catering
company. She didn't follow any previously established
career path - she created her own.

You can study every single business person in the
world and every aspiring mogul and come up with
different stories. Jon Peters was a hair stylist who
dated Barbra Streisand who asked him to produce
her remake of A Star Is Born. That is the nature of
this business.

But I understand where you're coming from. You
come from a very different world where, for the
most part, A leads to B which leads to C on the
way to Z. In this business A very often leads to
nowhere and occasionally A bypasses everything
and goes right to Z.

You can work very, very hard at understanding the
nature of the business and never get it. You can
fall into it an be hugely successful. And every conceivable
and unconceivable possibility in between.

You're both right - Bryan, thanks for the referral to the websites. 🙂

But a smart person should also hedge his bets. Yes, the world's largest retail company can be started in Arkansas - Walmart - and, yes, the world's largest software company can be started in Seattle - Microsoft. But, by and large, the centers of production are where an ambitious person should be. As far as I know, no major film production company has been started outside NY or LA. Vancouver, yes, but not Arkansas or Seattle.

I'm asking all this because I'm thinking of moving for personal reasons, and this can help me decide where to go, if I was to go. That said, technology is changing very fast, and the internet will change things in the next few years - as I have predicted.

So it comes to this - can anyone make it big outside LA, NY, or Vancouver? Anyone? I can't think of a film producer who has.

quote:

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Originally posted by Aspiring mogul

You're both right - Bryan, thanks for the referral to the websites. 🙂

But a smart person should also hedge his bets. Yes, the world's largest retail company can be started in Arkansas - Walmart - and, yes, the world's largest software company can be started in Seattle - Microsoft. But, by and large, the centers of production are where an ambitious person should be. As far as I know, no major film production company has been started outside NY or LA. Vancouver, yes, but not Arkansas or Seattle.

I'm asking all this because I'm thinking of moving for personal reasons, and this can help me decide where to go, if I was to go. That said, technology is changing very fast, and the internet will change things in the next few years - as I have predicted.

So it comes to this - can anyone make it big outside LA, NY, or Vancouver? Anyone? I can't think of a film producer who has.

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I'm still not exactly sure what you mean by "make it big." As a Producer?

I suppose it depends on what you want to produce. Features? Episodics? Documentaries? Sitcoms? Music videos?

There are a lot of details to producing, but the basic gist is that you're the Ring Master of the entire production. You gather all the elements together necessary to create a successful product.

So, you really need two things to be a Producer who can "make it big." The first is knowledge. You have to know EVERYTHING that it takes to create a product (of your choice...features, episodics, etc.) The second is access to those resources.

In terms of the first, there are various ways to gain the knowledge necessary. The big three are "on the job training," books and Internet information from experienced industry professionals, and "film" school.

On the job training generally means being working your way up and learning from others who have more experience. Doing that generally means moving to wherever there is a steady supply of opportunities, not only just to learn from others, but to have the chance to be given opportunities from those who you're working for/with.

There are a lot (A LOT) of books and websites out there which claim to be "Hollywood 101" resources that will give you the "secrets" and inside scoop on how to "make it" in the business. A LOT of them are just rehashing definitions of various jobs without offering any real, tangible information, that a new person needs to really build a real viable long-lasting career. It can be difficult to sift through all of it to find the "gems," but there are out there. One tell-tale sign of resources to avoid is if that resource includes a lot of name-dropping. While personal anecdotes from big-names is fun, what the SERIOUS aspiring film professional needs to know are details about what he is getting himself into. Does the resource tell you what the job really is beyond the textbook definition? Does the resource tell you how much money YOU have to spend (on eduction, supplies, living, etc) and how much money you can expect to realistically earn? Does it tell you where to live, who to meet, who won't be much help to you, what your typical working day will likely be like, and how to "move up" through the ranks and the odds of being successful at it?

And "film" school evaluation is roughly the same. Once you've determined what it is YOU really want to do (produce, direct, write, DP, etc.), does the school offer curriculum that is geared toward your goals? As an aspiring Producer, how will your ENTIRE school help you to learn the things you need to know in terms not only of film production, but accounting, scheduling, time management, marketing, and international relations?

So again, the key is to determine precisely what your goals are, then seek out specific resources (jobs, books/websites, formal education) that will guide you toward that end.

Once you've learned at least the basic fundamentals of producing, you need to gather the actual resources/elements to actually produce something. That includes financing, as well as cast, crew, and equipment and "the factory" (Locations to actually make it!) The way you know who to "gather" is to have experience with people and/or a network of other professionals who "know somebody who is good for that." That network comes from working IN the industry in a location that is populated by the kinds of people you need. So, while a lot of productions "go on the road" for various reasons, learning all the "Players" and hopefully getting to know them means not just visiting the primary production centers (bigger cities with more production), but actually LIVING there. Just "being there" lets you build a life where you may run into people at a restaurant or your kids may go to school with their kids or you can just go out for a casual game of golf or you see someone you want to meet at a screening or the grocery store. I'm not saying that you're likely to run into Jerry Bruckheimer at Barnes & Noble and you'll shove a script in his face. It doesn't work like that at all. The point is to build relationships, friendships, contacts by just "being there" and working and playing and living in that community. OVER TIME, you may meet people you've never even heard of who will be able to help you get where you want to in life.

So, WHICH city/town/country to move to in order to achieve all of this? As an aspiring Producer, you really could do produce from almost anywhere on Earth as long as you have a phone and a way to travel. But to increase the odds, a place like Los Angeles, where most of the Studio Executives live and work is still one of the best options. At the very least, assuming you're looking for studio financing or distribution, you'll be making some trips there for meetings at one point or another.

Can you "make it big" by living somewhere else? Maybe. Maybe not. And the same is true even if you move to Los Angeles or NY or Vancouver or New Delhi. You can probably improve your odds by moving to one of those places, but depending upon who you are (your personality, passion, drive, enthusiasm), who you know (and who you meet along the way), what your personal situation is (single, married, kids, in debt, your parents want you to be a Priest, etc),

AND... how is the overall industry doing? Global economics effects the movie production industry too. You may be the best thing to arrive on the scene since Steven Spielberg, but if you're new, established financiers will be less likely to even LOOK at you because you're not a "safe bet." When the economy is doing well, more projects are financed and newbies have more opportunities on all levels, but when the economy is bad, fewer projects are made for less money and the established talent gets first dibs on the money and resources required to make a product. No matter how hard you work and how wonderful and skilled you are, there are still some factors that are out of your control. That's why it's important that you enjoy the JOURNEY and not be so disappointed if it's taking longer than you'd like. Choose a path toward your goal that you'll have fun with. That includes the jobs you agree to take as well as the city/town that you choose to LIVE in.

Making movies is fun (or can be), but it is also a lifestyle choice. As someone else has said, if we weren't doing this, we'd all be in the circus traveling from town to town. Be focused and passionate and persevere, but don't forget to LIVE life outside the industry too. Chances are, it'll be the LIVING part that helps you find more success with the CAREER part.

Brian Dzyak
Cameraman/Author
IATSE Local 600, SOC
http://www.whatireallywanttodo.com
http://www.realfilmcareer.com

quote:

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Originally posted by Aspiring mogul
So it comes to this - can anyone make it big outside LA, NY, or Vancouver? Anyone? I can't think of a film producer who has.

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I don't see why not.

Frank Capra III has made it "big" with his studio in
N. Carolina. He comes from a legacy family so he
might not count. But his biggest, personal, claim to
fame is the success of Screen Gems.

But I, too, don't really understand what you mean.
Since there are studios in N. Carolina, Austin, New
Mexico, Michigan, Tokyo, Hong Kong and elsewhere,
there are people there who have made it work. By
making it big, do you mean an individual producer
whose name most people will know? Do you mean
a producer who made it big without ever working
in LA, NY, or Vancouver?

quote:

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Do you mean a producer who made it big without ever working
in LA, NY, or Vancouver?

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CI, yes, that's what I mean. Frank Capra would be a good example - I'm learning. Make it big as in Steven Spielberg or George Lucas or Francis Ford Coppola - that's the rule of thumb for opportunities. If someone made it big in one center, then that is the place with lots of opportunities for an aspiring modul.

Take high tech - you can build a world class tech company outside Silicon Valley, as in Boston, Waterloo (Canada), or Japan. So there are opportunities for aspiring tech tycoons, or, for that matter, someone wanting to move sideways in his career. So you go to these centers, which would, on average, have more opportunities - you don't have to limit yourself to Silicon Valley.

By the way, I'm now convinced that Silicon Valley has lost its ability to be creative and innovative, and there will be opportunities for a new area that will astound the world in leading creative high tech research. I think it will be in the US, which has the most creative can-do culture on Earth, but where in the US, I don't know yet. I'm keeping my eyes and ears tuned.

Now, for film, I don't know of any company who has made it big in North America outside the big three. There are, of course, many film companies in Japan who have established world icons, like Godzilla and the Japanese anime's. But I'm not talking of them; I'm talking of the US and Canada.